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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 477790 |
Time | |
Date | 200007 |
Day | Mon |
Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | navaid : sfo.vor |
State Reference | CA |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 600 msl bound upper : 2000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tower : sfo.tower |
Operator | general aviation : personal |
Make Model Name | Learjet 60 |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 91 |
Flight Phase | climbout : initial |
Route In Use | departure sid : porte three |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Controlling Facilities | tower : sfo.tower |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Commercial Fixed Wing |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | climbout : initial |
Route In Use | approach : svfr |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | other |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : cfi pilot : commercial pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 155 flight time total : 4925 flight time type : 600 |
ASRS Report | 477790 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | other |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : instrument pilot : multi engine pilot : commercial |
Events | |
Anomaly | conflict : airborne critical conflict : nmac non adherence : clearance |
Independent Detector | atc equipment other atc equipment : brite radar aircraft equipment : tcas other controllera other flight crewa other flight crewb |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance flight crew : took evasive action |
Miss Distance | vertical : 300 |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
We had been cleared via the porte three departure avenal transition from sfo to our destination. Air carrier Y airlines had been told to taxi into position on runway 1R. Shortly thereafter we were told to taxi into position on runway 1L. Tower then cleared the air carrier Y aircraft for takeoff with a right turnout. I noted to my first officer that we would probably be a few mins before takeoff since an aircraft was painting on the TCASII inside 10 NM for one of the 28 runways. To my surprise tower cleared us for takeoff. I noted that the air carrier Y jet was barely rolling. Since we were light with no passenger, my first officer was climbing 4000+ FPM. We were cleared to 15000 ft so our only concern was the terribly close air carrier Y jet. We rotated before the air carrier Y jet and kept him in sight until entering the marine layer. The whole time our TA is flashing and all we can think is climb or break out to the north (left) early. Our TCASII makes the switch to RA's and audible warning somewhere around 1200 ft AGL. Our departure requires that after takeoff you track out on the sfo 350 degree radial and cross 4 DME above 1600 ft then turn left to 200 degree heading. The air carrier Y jet was slightly ahead of us. We had just completed the after takeoff checklist. About the end of the runway (necessary items done on a normal takeoff) tower tells the air carrier Y jet to start their turn now. He then comes back and squawks some sort of left turn to us. I'm thinking I was just getting ready to turn left, so repeat that information. My first officer had already started creeping left anyway. Our sensitivity was just starting to settle on our radial and we were intercepting the 350 degree radial. Maybe less than 1 NM off runway 1L I always back up the FMS on green source. We also were flying this little portion of the SID mainly green source backed up white, since white changes too fast. So about the time we enter the marine layer the RA starts screaming maintain vertical speed (climb), the tower is yelling turn left, and our needle is alive. We fly the plane first and control the RA. I ask tower to repeat and he asks why we hadn't started our left turn. I say, because we haven't reached 4 DME. He says no why haven't you intercepted the 350 degree radial and tells us to comply with the SID. My partner had rolled left 30 degree bank and back to the right 30 degree bank and we were right on the radial. I felt like saying why don't you study navigation limitations and aircraft performance, not to mention you caused an RA. I didn't though. Companies set rules when planes can start turns, which is probably why the air carrier Y jet didn't turn sooner. Or maybe he never knew we were there or that close? Navaids have limitations, so if controllers use this departure and simultaneously or nearly clear aircraft for takeoff on parallel runways, I would say this will happen again. Luckily the performance of the LJ60 saved us. The wind was out of the southwest which probably drifted the air carrier Y jet towards us, but we would have also been drifting, note towards our radial. Also the air carrier jet was maybe 2 seconds ahead of our roll on takeoff. A 20000 pound airplane compared to who knows? We accelerate fast especially empty. We should've been given an immediate left turn after takeoff.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: LJ60 DEPARTING RWY 1L SIMULTANEOUSLY WITH AN ACR DEPARTING RWY 1R DOES NOT COMPLY WITH SID AND CONFLICTS WITH THE OTHER DEP.
Narrative: WE HAD BEEN CLRED VIA THE PORTE THREE DEP AVENAL TRANSITION FROM SFO TO OUR DEST. ACR Y AIRLINES HAD BEEN TOLD TO TAXI INTO POS ON RWY 1R. SHORTLY THEREAFTER WE WERE TOLD TO TAXI INTO POS ON RWY 1L. TWR THEN CLRED THE ACR Y ACFT FOR TKOF WITH A R TURNOUT. I NOTED TO MY FO THAT WE WOULD PROBABLY BE A FEW MINS BEFORE TKOF SINCE AN ACFT WAS PAINTING ON THE TCASII INSIDE 10 NM FOR ONE OF THE 28 RWYS. TO MY SURPRISE TWR CLRED US FOR TKOF. I NOTED THAT THE ACR Y JET WAS BARELY ROLLING. SINCE WE WERE LIGHT WITH NO PAX, MY FO WAS CLBING 4000+ FPM. WE WERE CLRED TO 15000 FT SO OUR ONLY CONCERN WAS THE TERRIBLY CLOSE ACR Y JET. WE ROTATED BEFORE THE ACR Y JET AND KEPT HIM IN SIGHT UNTIL ENTERING THE MARINE LAYER. THE WHOLE TIME OUR TA IS FLASHING AND ALL WE CAN THINK IS CLB OR BREAK OUT TO THE N (L) EARLY. OUR TCASII MAKES THE SWITCH TO RA'S AND AUDIBLE WARNING SOMEWHERE AROUND 1200 FT AGL. OUR DEP REQUIRES THAT AFTER TKOF YOU TRACK OUT ON THE SFO 350 DEG RADIAL AND CROSS 4 DME ABOVE 1600 FT THEN TURN L TO 200 DEG HDG. THE ACR Y JET WAS SLIGHTLY AHEAD OF US. WE HAD JUST COMPLETED THE AFTER TKOF CHKLIST. ABOUT THE END OF THE RWY (NECESSARY ITEMS DONE ON A NORMAL TKOF) TWR TELLS THE ACR Y JET TO START THEIR TURN NOW. HE THEN COMES BACK AND SQUAWKS SOME SORT OF L TURN TO US. I'M THINKING I WAS JUST GETTING READY TO TURN L, SO REPEAT THAT INFO. MY FO HAD ALREADY STARTED CREEPING L ANYWAY. OUR SENSITIVITY WAS JUST STARTING TO SETTLE ON OUR RADIAL AND WE WERE INTERCEPTING THE 350 DEG RADIAL. MAYBE LESS THAN 1 NM OFF RWY 1L I ALWAYS BACK UP THE FMS ON GREEN SOURCE. WE ALSO WERE FLYING THIS LITTLE PORTION OF THE SID MAINLY GREEN SOURCE BACKED UP WHITE, SINCE WHITE CHANGES TOO FAST. SO ABOUT THE TIME WE ENTER THE MARINE LAYER THE RA STARTS SCREAMING MAINTAIN VERT SPD (CLB), THE TWR IS YELLING TURN L, AND OUR NEEDLE IS ALIVE. WE FLY THE PLANE FIRST AND CTL THE RA. I ASK TWR TO REPEAT AND HE ASKS WHY WE HADN'T STARTED OUR L TURN. I SAY, BECAUSE WE HAVEN'T REACHED 4 DME. HE SAYS NO WHY HAVEN'T YOU INTERCEPTED THE 350 DEG RADIAL AND TELLS US TO COMPLY WITH THE SID. MY PARTNER HAD ROLLED L 30 DEG BANK AND BACK TO THE R 30 DEG BANK AND WE WERE RIGHT ON THE RADIAL. I FELT LIKE SAYING WHY DON'T YOU STUDY NAV LIMITATIONS AND ACFT PERFORMANCE, NOT TO MENTION YOU CAUSED AN RA. I DIDN'T THOUGH. COMPANIES SET RULES WHEN PLANES CAN START TURNS, WHICH IS PROBABLY WHY THE ACR Y JET DIDN'T TURN SOONER. OR MAYBE HE NEVER KNEW WE WERE THERE OR THAT CLOSE? NAVAIDS HAVE LIMITATIONS, SO IF CTLRS USE THIS DEP AND SIMULTANEOUSLY OR NEARLY CLR ACFT FOR TKOF ON PARALLEL RWYS, I WOULD SAY THIS WILL HAPPEN AGAIN. LUCKILY THE PERFORMANCE OF THE LJ60 SAVED US. THE WIND WAS OUT OF THE SW WHICH PROBABLY DRIFTED THE ACR Y JET TOWARDS US, BUT WE WOULD HAVE ALSO BEEN DRIFTING, NOTE TOWARDS OUR RADIAL. ALSO THE ACR JET WAS MAYBE 2 SECONDS AHEAD OF OUR ROLL ON TKOF. A 20000 LB AIRPLANE COMPARED TO WHO KNOWS? WE ACCELERATE FAST ESPECIALLY EMPTY. WE SHOULD'VE BEEN GIVEN AN IMMEDIATE L TURN AFTER TKOF.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.