Narrative:

I would like to enlist your help in encouraging ATC to provide early specific arrival instructions, particularly on potential, multiple STAR transition possibilities, so as to enhance flight safety during extrmely demanding STAR's into klax. In this case we had studied all potential STAR's into lax. We were originally filed via the 'pdz-3' arrival our routing had changed somewhat, due to thunderstorms over NM, az, and co. So, we were proceeding over hec VOR. We had loaded the new 'yenni' STAR into route #1 of the FMC, anticipating an ILS 25L approach. We also loaded the 'mitts' STAR, into the route #2 database, just in case we were re-routed for an ILS 24R approach. After 4 hours of preparation and review, we thought that we were adaptable to most any possibility! The aircraft was on autoplt, so that we could fly the arrival as safely and accurately as possible. As we flew past hec VOR, we still were unable to get a commitment from ATC on which STAR we would be issued for our arrival into lax. Now at an intermiediate altitude of 24000 MSL, we were issued the civet arrival. Although we adapted quickly to an arrival that we least expected, because the arrival procedure (civet STAR) was issued relatively 'late', and at the last min, we were immediately 'high' on the crossing restriction over civet. So, I disconnected the autoplt, and accelerated our descent, and complied with the altitude restrictions for civet, about (4) four mi west of civet. We had crossed civet between FL175 and FL180, about 500-1000 ft high. We had been unable to advise ATC due to frequency congestion. Our arrival was similar to a soccer goally waiting for multiple players to kick a soccer ball at his net, from various position on the field, not knowing from which part of the field, the ball would actually be kicked from,until it was actually kicked! These STAR's are complex enough that they need to be issued, well in advance of the arrival portion of the flight, particullarly, when there are multiple STAR's and transition possibilities into a complex arrival enviroment, with multiple approachs and runways!!!

Related reports:

Google
 

Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: ACR PLT REQUESTS BETTER PLANNING AND TIMELY APCH ROUTING ASSIGNMENT FOR LAX ARR FROM ATC.

Narrative: I WOULD LIKE TO ENLIST YOUR HELP IN ENCOURAGING ATC TO PROVIDE EARLY SPECIFIC ARRIVAL INSTRUCTIONS, PARTICULARLY ON POTENTIAL, MULTIPLE STAR TRANSITION POSSIBILITIES, SO AS TO ENHANCE FLT SAFETY DURING EXTRMELY DEMANDING STAR'S INTO KLAX. IN THIS CASE WE HAD STUDIED ALL POTENTIAL STAR'S INTO LAX. WE WERE ORIGINALLY FILED VIA THE 'PDZ-3' ARRIVAL OUR ROUTING HAD CHANGED SOMEWHAT, DUE TO THUNDERSTORMS OVER NM, AZ, AND CO. SO, WE WERE PROCEEDING OVER HEC VOR. WE HAD LOADED THE NEW 'YENNI' STAR INTO RTE #1 OF THE FMC, ANTICIPATING AN ILS 25L APCH. WE ALSO LOADED THE 'MITTS' STAR, INTO THE RTE #2 DATABASE, JUST IN CASE WE WERE RE-ROUTED FOR AN ILS 24R APCH. AFTER 4 HRS OF PREPARATION AND REVIEW, WE THOUGHT THAT WE WERE ADAPTABLE TO MOST ANY POSSIBILITY! THE ACFT WAS ON AUTOPLT, SO THAT WE COULD FLY THE ARRIVAL AS SAFELY AND ACCURATELY AS POSSIBLE. AS WE FLEW PAST HEC VOR, WE STILL WERE UNABLE TO GET A COMMITMENT FROM ATC ON WHICH STAR WE WOULD BE ISSUED FOR OUR ARRIVAL INTO LAX. NOW AT AN INTERMIEDIATE ALTITUDE OF 24000 MSL, WE WERE ISSUED THE CIVET ARRIVAL. ALTHOUGH WE ADAPTED QUICKLY TO AN ARRIVAL THAT WE LEAST EXPECTED, BECAUSE THE ARRIVAL PROC (CIVET STAR) WAS ISSUED RELATIVELY 'LATE', AND AT THE LAST MIN, WE WERE IMMEDIATELY 'HIGH' ON THE XING RESTRICTION OVER CIVET. SO, I DISCONNECTED THE AUTOPLT, AND ACCELERATED OUR DESCENT, AND COMPLIED WITH THE ALTITUDE RESTRICTIONS FOR CIVET, ABOUT (4) FOUR MI W OF CIVET. WE HAD CROSSED CIVET BTWN FL175 AND FL180, ABOUT 500-1000 FT HIGH. WE HAD BEEN UNABLE TO ADVISE ATC DUE TO FREQ CONGESTION. OUR ARR WAS SIMILAR TO A SOCCER GOALLY WAITING FOR MULTIPLE PLAYERS TO KICK A SOCCER BALL AT HIS NET, FROM VARIOUS POS ON THE FIELD, NOT KNOWING FROM WHICH PART OF THE FIELD, THE BALL WOULD ACTUALLY BE KICKED FROM,UNTIL IT WAS ACTUALLY KICKED! THESE STAR'S ARE COMPLEX ENOUGH THAT THEY NEED TO BE ISSUED, WELL IN ADVANCE OF THE ARR PORTION OF THE FLT, PARTICULLARLY, WHEN THERE ARE MULTIPLE STAR'S AND TRANSITION POSSIBILITIES INTO A COMPLEX ARR ENVIROMENT, WITH MULTIPLE APCHS AND RWYS!!!

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.