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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 758815 |
Time | |
Date | 200710 |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : lax.airport |
State Reference | CA |
Altitude | msl single value : 17000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | Marginal |
Weather Elements | other |
Light | Dusk |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : sct.tracon tower : tmb.tower |
Operator | general aviation : corporate |
Make Model Name | Falcon 2000 |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 91 |
Navigation In Use | other |
Flight Phase | descent : intermediate altitude |
Route In Use | arrival star : civet |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : corporate |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 75 flight time total : 14000 flight time type : 500 |
ASRS Report | 758815 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | government : faa |
Function | controller : approach |
Events | |
Anomaly | non adherence : published procedure |
Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | Flight Crew Human Performance Aircraft ATC Human Performance |
Primary Problem | Ambiguous |
Narrative:
On assigned arrival of civet 5 (just outside of civet) to runway 25L we were given a last-minute change to initiate 'descend via' civet 5 arrival and then a runway change to runway 24R. First officer was flying and he reentered the runway 24R and arrival into the honeywell easy FMS and all the waypoints dumped leaving us with no vertical or horizontal data to navigation with. I immediately advised ATC and they issued a heading and altitude to intercept the runway 24R ILS and the remainder of the approach and landing was uneventful. Lax approach is notorious for issuing very last-minute changes to these somewhat complex arrival procedures which require reprogramming modern day FMS system and readily set up pilots for deviating from these clrncs. Even on departure from lax runway 25R; we were given a different departure clearance while beginning our takeoff roll that required a VOR reference that was different from our original departure clearance. Having flown into lax in both a major airline position and a cpr flying position I've found that this kind of rapid change clrncs to be the worst in the country. Modern day FMS system require substantial entries and oversight to properly load the appropriate routing and altitude restrs so when these types of rapid-fire changes occur during an approach that consist of many waypoints and crossing restrs; the chances of data error is enormous. In my opinion; it's only a matter of time before 2 aircraft are in the same place; at the same time; because of this type of ATC handling.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: DA2000 FLT CREW IS ISSUED NEW RWY ASSIGNMENT DURING CIVET 5 TO LAX AND FMC DUMPS ALL WAYPOINTS DURING REPROGRAMMING. FLT CREW QUICKLY REQUESTS VECTORS AND ALTITUDE ASSIGNMENT AND NO DEVIATIONS OCCUR.
Narrative: ON ASSIGNED ARR OF CIVET 5 (JUST OUTSIDE OF CIVET) TO RWY 25L WE WERE GIVEN A LAST-MINUTE CHANGE TO INITIATE 'DSND VIA' CIVET 5 ARR AND THEN A RWY CHANGE TO RWY 24R. FO WAS FLYING AND HE REENTERED THE RWY 24R AND ARR INTO THE HONEYWELL EASY FMS AND ALL THE WAYPOINTS DUMPED LEAVING US WITH NO VERT OR HORIZ DATA TO NAV WITH. I IMMEDIATELY ADVISED ATC AND THEY ISSUED A HDG AND ALT TO INTERCEPT THE RWY 24R ILS AND THE REMAINDER OF THE APCH AND LNDG WAS UNEVENTFUL. LAX APCH IS NOTORIOUS FOR ISSUING VERY LAST-MINUTE CHANGES TO THESE SOMEWHAT COMPLEX ARR PROCS WHICH REQUIRE REPROGRAMMING MODERN DAY FMS SYS AND READILY SET UP PLTS FOR DEVIATING FROM THESE CLRNCS. EVEN ON DEP FROM LAX RWY 25R; WE WERE GIVEN A DIFFERENT DEP CLRNC WHILE BEGINNING OUR TKOF ROLL THAT REQUIRED A VOR REF THAT WAS DIFFERENT FROM OUR ORIGINAL DEP CLRNC. HAVING FLOWN INTO LAX IN BOTH A MAJOR AIRLINE POS AND A CPR FLYING POS I'VE FOUND THAT THIS KIND OF RAPID CHANGE CLRNCS TO BE THE WORST IN THE COUNTRY. MODERN DAY FMS SYS REQUIRE SUBSTANTIAL ENTRIES AND OVERSIGHT TO PROPERLY LOAD THE APPROPRIATE ROUTING AND ALT RESTRS SO WHEN THESE TYPES OF RAPID-FIRE CHANGES OCCUR DURING AN APCH THAT CONSIST OF MANY WAYPOINTS AND XING RESTRS; THE CHANCES OF DATA ERROR IS ENORMOUS. IN MY OPINION; IT'S ONLY A MATTER OF TIME BEFORE 2 ACFT ARE IN THE SAME PLACE; AT THE SAME TIME; BECAUSE OF THIS TYPE OF ATC HANDLING.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of January 2009 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.