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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 490462 |
Time | |
Date | 200010 |
Day | Wed |
Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : sat.airport |
State Reference | TX |
Altitude | msl single value : 1300 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | IMC |
Light | Night |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tower : sat.tower |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | B727 Undifferentiated or Other Model |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Navigation In Use | ils localizer & glide slope : 12r |
Flight Phase | descent : approach |
Route In Use | approach : instrument precision |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Controlling Facilities | tower : sat.tower |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | B757 Undifferentiated or Other Model |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | climbout : takeoff ground : takeoff roll ground : position and hold |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : atp pilot : flight engineer |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 94 flight time total : 4100 flight time type : 660 |
ASRS Report | 490462 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Events | |
Anomaly | conflict : ground less severe non adherence : required legal separation |
Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | none taken : anomaly accepted |
Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew Other |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | ATC Human Performance Weather |
Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | other |
Narrative:
Inbound to sat from iah. Arriving sat with ATIS information 9 overcast 6 mi broken. Cleared and given vectors for ILS runway 12R at sat. Current conditions IMC. Heard departing flight PIREP 'base at 1300 ft with multiple layers on top.' at 3 mi from touchdown, on ILS localizer course and glidepath, heard sat tower clear B757 for takeoff runway 12R and tower added 'landing traffic B727 at 3 mi.' tower then told us 'B727 cleared to land, caution wake turbulence departing B757.' as we broke out at 1300 ft MSL (500 ft AGL), we saw the B757 still in takeoff position on runway 12R. It appeared the B757 started moving for 10 seconds. By the time we saw the B757 start its takeoff roll, we were around 1.5 mi from touchdown. It was hard to gauge the acceleration rate of the B757 -- it did not use strobes, only the position lights and rotating beacons were on. We knew at this time spacing would be tight and we touched down just as the B757 established its takeoff flare. On rollout, we commented to sat tower that the separation was a little tight and he responded in a somewhat defensive/challenging tone, 'it was legal...do you want my phone number?' in hindsight, I will not let a controller paint me into a corner again. I question the takeoff clearance given to the B757 with a 500 ft ceiling with IMC (PIREP). I also question the need to 'push tin' at sat at runway 30L. There were 3 aircraft moving about the field -- the departing flight (long out of the picture), the taxiing B757, and ourselves on short final. It appeared from my seat sat tower was pushing the limit.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: B727 FLC BELIEVE THAT THERE WAS NO NEED FOR TWR CTLR TO CLR THEM TO LAND WHILE A B757 WAS JUST LIFTING OFF WHEN THEY WERE TOUCHING DOWN.
Narrative: INBOUND TO SAT FROM IAH. ARRIVING SAT WITH ATIS INFO 9 OVCST 6 MI BROKEN. CLRED AND GIVEN VECTORS FOR ILS RWY 12R AT SAT. CURRENT CONDITIONS IMC. HEARD DEPARTING FLT PIREP 'BASE AT 1300 FT WITH MULTIPLE LAYERS ON TOP.' AT 3 MI FROM TOUCHDOWN, ON ILS LOC COURSE AND GLIDEPATH, HEARD SAT TWR CLR B757 FOR TKOF RWY 12R AND TWR ADDED 'LNDG TFC B727 AT 3 MI.' TWR THEN TOLD US 'B727 CLRED TO LAND, CAUTION WAKE TURB DEPARTING B757.' AS WE BROKE OUT AT 1300 FT MSL (500 FT AGL), WE SAW THE B757 STILL IN TKOF POS ON RWY 12R. IT APPEARED THE B757 STARTED MOVING FOR 10 SECONDS. BY THE TIME WE SAW THE B757 START ITS TKOF ROLL, WE WERE AROUND 1.5 MI FROM TOUCHDOWN. IT WAS HARD TO GAUGE THE ACCELERATION RATE OF THE B757 -- IT DID NOT USE STROBES, ONLY THE POS LIGHTS AND ROTATING BEACONS WERE ON. WE KNEW AT THIS TIME SPACING WOULD BE TIGHT AND WE TOUCHED DOWN JUST AS THE B757 ESTABLISHED ITS TKOF FLARE. ON ROLLOUT, WE COMMENTED TO SAT TWR THAT THE SEPARATION WAS A LITTLE TIGHT AND HE RESPONDED IN A SOMEWHAT DEFENSIVE/CHALLENGING TONE, 'IT WAS LEGAL...DO YOU WANT MY PHONE NUMBER?' IN HINDSIGHT, I WILL NOT LET A CTLR PAINT ME INTO A CORNER AGAIN. I QUESTION THE TKOF CLRNC GIVEN TO THE B757 WITH A 500 FT CEILING WITH IMC (PIREP). I ALSO QUESTION THE NEED TO 'PUSH TIN' AT SAT AT RWY 30L. THERE WERE 3 ACFT MOVING ABOUT THE FIELD -- THE DEPARTING FLT (LONG OUT OF THE PICTURE), THE TAXIING B757, AND OURSELVES ON SHORT FINAL. IT APPEARED FROM MY SEAT SAT TWR WAS PUSHING THE LIMIT.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.