Narrative:

On nov/mon/00, at approximately XA45, an IFR instrument student and I filed for an IFR flight from provo, ut, to cedar city, ut. We called for a clearance from slc approach. They gave us the option to request a clearance airborne if we desired. I opted to request once airborne and clear from any possible cloud cover, which was high, but I wanted to ensure that we would not violate any VFR flight rules. Upon being clear of any clouds we called and requested a clearance, and we were granted a clearance as filed. In the remarks section of the flight plan we added 'IFR training flight, GPS onboard, not IFR capable.' our intent was that if we encountered any IMC conditions or any conditions that would violate 1000 ft above or 1000 ft below, 1-MI horizontal, or 5 mi visibility, we would divert to VFR conditions, and simply cancel our IFR clearance. Upon landing in cedar city, and I might add we followed all instructions and had no problems with the WX or the flight. We landed in cedar city, ut, and refueled. We got back in the aircraft and requested a clearance back to provo by cedar city radio. We were informed that ZLC had a discrepancy with our remarks section that the aircraft was not IFR capable and we would not be given an IFR clearance. We were told upon arriving in provo, ut, to contact controller at the slc tower. Upon landing, I called controller at the number that had been provided. He passes me on to the manager. I was very curious as to what I had done wrong because I knew I had followed all the procedures and not had any problems with them. I asked the manager what I had done that was wrong. He informed me that I was wrong to have accepted an IFR clearance in an aircraft that was not IFR certified. I informed him that I have my instrument rating, and I was going to cancel my IFR clearance if I observed any WX that would cause me to violate VFR conditions. I know that most other instructors I have spoken with do that same thing, but have never encountered a situation like this. The manager informed me, that I was wrong and that he would forward the report to the FSDO, who would contact me in the next couple of days. He told me that I was wrong I accepted because I had an IFR clearance in an aircraft not capable of flying into actual IFR conditions. I once again explained to him my intentions that we would never have entered IMC conditions. He requested my information, which I gave him. I was unable to find any regulations verifying that I could not file IFR, the aircraft has all the required equipment it is simply not authority/authorized to enter IMC conditions according to the placard, but once again I remained VMC throughout the whole flight. To add, I spoke with the inspector FSDO and asked them if I could file IFR in an aircraft not authority/authorized to fly into IFR conditions and he informed me that they do that all the time and there are no problems with that. Supplemental information from acn 493843: I filed 2 IFR flight plans, one for a flight from pvu (provo, ut) to cdc (cedar city, ut) and another for the return flight cdc to pvu. I am a student working on my instrument rating. I filed the flight plan in my name and put in the remarks that this flight was an IFR training flight, GPS onboard, and the aircraft is not IFR capable. The reason for these comments was to alert anyone (a controller) that we would be flying under an IFR flight plan for training purposes, but would not actually be able to fly into IMC and of course that we had additional navigation equipment. I radioed salt lake approach on the ground at provo and he said he could give us our clearance on the ground or we could pick it up in the air. We opted to get the clearance in the air and picked it up just south of the fairfield VOR (ffu). Everything went as planned on the way to cedar city where we shot a practice approach. After picking up fuel and doing our preflight checks, I called to get the IFR clearance for the flight home to provo. After a long radio discussion with cedar city radio, we were told that we needed to talk with ZLC after departing to see if they would give us the clearance. Upon talking with ZLC after departing cedar city (VFR) we were told that the controller did not feel comfortable giving us a clearance. We told the controller that if we encountered IMC we would cancel IFR and go VFR. I understood that the reason we couldn't get an IFR clearance was that in the remarks section I had stated that the aircraft was not IFR capable. He said that if we had any questions we could call the ZLC manager. We asked for flight following, which was given, and proceeded to provo in VMC conditions. The route of flight was clear and the flight was very uneventful. After getting to provo, my instructor called the ZLC manager. He apparently said that if your aircraft is not IFR certified, you cannot accept an IFR clearance. I was trying to help the controller in this situation to be aware of our aircraft's capabilities, or in this case the lack thereof. I am not sure why this would have caused a problem, but it seems to have some people upset. Callback conversation with reporter on acn 493843 revealed the following information: instrument student stated that he had since learned from his instructor that it was not legal for him to file the IFR flight plan and that the aircraft does not have to be IFR equipped. He further stated that the FAA FSDO inspector had counseled his instructor, and other flight school instructors regarding these instrument training aircraft and pilot requirements.

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Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: INST RATED STUDENT, WITH INST RATED FLT INSTRUCTOR FILED AN IFR FLT PLAN UNDER STUDENT'S NAME AND INDICATED IN THE REMARKS SECTION THAT THE ACFT WAS NOT IFR CAPABLE. ARTCC CTLR GAVE THEM CLRNC AFTER BECOMING AIRBORNE TO THEIR DEST, BUT REFUSED TO GIVE THEM RETURN IFR CLRNC BECAUSE THE ACFT WAS NOT IFR CAPABLE.

Narrative: ON NOV/MON/00, AT APPROX XA45, AN IFR INST STUDENT AND I FILED FOR AN IFR FLT FROM PROVO, UT, TO CEDAR CITY, UT. WE CALLED FOR A CLRNC FROM SLC APCH. THEY GAVE US THE OPTION TO REQUEST A CLRNC AIRBORNE IF WE DESIRED. I OPTED TO REQUEST ONCE AIRBORNE AND CLR FROM ANY POSSIBLE CLOUD COVER, WHICH WAS HIGH, BUT I WANTED TO ENSURE THAT WE WOULD NOT VIOLATE ANY VFR FLT RULES. UPON BEING CLR OF ANY CLOUDS WE CALLED AND REQUESTED A CLRNC, AND WE WERE GRANTED A CLRNC AS FILED. IN THE REMARKS SECTION OF THE FLT PLAN WE ADDED 'IFR TRAINING FLT, GPS ONBOARD, NOT IFR CAPABLE.' OUR INTENT WAS THAT IF WE ENCOUNTERED ANY IMC CONDITIONS OR ANY CONDITIONS THAT WOULD VIOLATE 1000 FT ABOVE OR 1000 FT BELOW, 1-MI HORIZ, OR 5 MI VISIBILITY, WE WOULD DIVERT TO VFR CONDITIONS, AND SIMPLY CANCEL OUR IFR CLRNC. UPON LNDG IN CEDAR CITY, AND I MIGHT ADD WE FOLLOWED ALL INSTRUCTIONS AND HAD NO PROBS WITH THE WX OR THE FLT. WE LANDED IN CEDAR CITY, UT, AND REFUELED. WE GOT BACK IN THE ACFT AND REQUESTED A CLRNC BACK TO PROVO BY CEDAR CITY RADIO. WE WERE INFORMED THAT ZLC HAD A DISCREPANCY WITH OUR REMARKS SECTION THAT THE ACFT WAS NOT IFR CAPABLE AND WE WOULD NOT BE GIVEN AN IFR CLRNC. WE WERE TOLD UPON ARRIVING IN PROVO, UT, TO CONTACT CTLR AT THE SLC TWR. UPON LNDG, I CALLED CTLR AT THE NUMBER THAT HAD BEEN PROVIDED. HE PASSES ME ON TO THE MGR. I WAS VERY CURIOUS AS TO WHAT I HAD DONE WRONG BECAUSE I KNEW I HAD FOLLOWED ALL THE PROCS AND NOT HAD ANY PROBS WITH THEM. I ASKED THE MGR WHAT I HAD DONE THAT WAS WRONG. HE INFORMED ME THAT I WAS WRONG TO HAVE ACCEPTED AN IFR CLRNC IN AN ACFT THAT WAS NOT IFR CERTIFIED. I INFORMED HIM THAT I HAVE MY INST RATING, AND I WAS GOING TO CANCEL MY IFR CLRNC IF I OBSERVED ANY WX THAT WOULD CAUSE ME TO VIOLATE VFR CONDITIONS. I KNOW THAT MOST OTHER INSTRUCTORS I HAVE SPOKEN WITH DO THAT SAME THING, BUT HAVE NEVER ENCOUNTERED A SIT LIKE THIS. THE MGR INFORMED ME, THAT I WAS WRONG AND THAT HE WOULD FORWARD THE RPT TO THE FSDO, WHO WOULD CONTACT ME IN THE NEXT COUPLE OF DAYS. HE TOLD ME THAT I WAS WRONG I ACCEPTED BECAUSE I HAD AN IFR CLRNC IN AN ACFT NOT CAPABLE OF FLYING INTO ACTUAL IFR CONDITIONS. I ONCE AGAIN EXPLAINED TO HIM MY INTENTIONS THAT WE WOULD NEVER HAVE ENTERED IMC CONDITIONS. HE REQUESTED MY INFO, WHICH I GAVE HIM. I WAS UNABLE TO FIND ANY REGS VERIFYING THAT I COULD NOT FILE IFR, THE ACFT HAS ALL THE REQUIRED EQUIP IT IS SIMPLY NOT AUTH TO ENTER IMC CONDITIONS ACCORDING TO THE PLACARD, BUT ONCE AGAIN I REMAINED VMC THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE FLT. TO ADD, I SPOKE WITH THE INSPECTOR FSDO AND ASKED THEM IF I COULD FILE IFR IN AN ACFT NOT AUTH TO FLY INTO IFR CONDITIONS AND HE INFORMED ME THAT THEY DO THAT ALL THE TIME AND THERE ARE NO PROBS WITH THAT. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 493843: I FILED 2 IFR FLT PLANS, ONE FOR A FLT FROM PVU (PROVO, UT) TO CDC (CEDAR CITY, UT) AND ANOTHER FOR THE RETURN FLT CDC TO PVU. I AM A STUDENT WORKING ON MY INST RATING. I FILED THE FLT PLAN IN MY NAME AND PUT IN THE REMARKS THAT THIS FLT WAS AN IFR TRAINING FLT, GPS ONBOARD, AND THE ACFT IS NOT IFR CAPABLE. THE REASON FOR THESE COMMENTS WAS TO ALERT ANYONE (A CTLR) THAT WE WOULD BE FLYING UNDER AN IFR FLT PLAN FOR TRAINING PURPOSES, BUT WOULD NOT ACTUALLY BE ABLE TO FLY INTO IMC AND OF COURSE THAT WE HAD ADDITIONAL NAV EQUIP. I RADIOED SALT LAKE APCH ON THE GND AT PROVO AND HE SAID HE COULD GIVE US OUR CLRNC ON THE GND OR WE COULD PICK IT UP IN THE AIR. WE OPTED TO GET THE CLRNC IN THE AIR AND PICKED IT UP JUST S OF THE FAIRFIELD VOR (FFU). EVERYTHING WENT AS PLANNED ON THE WAY TO CEDAR CITY WHERE WE SHOT A PRACTICE APCH. AFTER PICKING UP FUEL AND DOING OUR PREFLT CHKS, I CALLED TO GET THE IFR CLRNC FOR THE FLT HOME TO PROVO. AFTER A LONG RADIO DISCUSSION WITH CEDAR CITY RADIO, WE WERE TOLD THAT WE NEEDED TO TALK WITH ZLC AFTER DEPARTING TO SEE IF THEY WOULD GIVE US THE CLRNC. UPON TALKING WITH ZLC AFTER DEPARTING CEDAR CITY (VFR) WE WERE TOLD THAT THE CTLR DID NOT FEEL COMFORTABLE GIVING US A CLRNC. WE TOLD THE CTLR THAT IF WE ENCOUNTERED IMC WE WOULD CANCEL IFR AND GO VFR. I UNDERSTOOD THAT THE REASON WE COULDN'T GET AN IFR CLRNC WAS THAT IN THE REMARKS SECTION I HAD STATED THAT THE ACFT WAS NOT IFR CAPABLE. HE SAID THAT IF WE HAD ANY QUESTIONS WE COULD CALL THE ZLC MGR. WE ASKED FOR FLT FOLLOWING, WHICH WAS GIVEN, AND PROCEEDED TO PROVO IN VMC CONDITIONS. THE RTE OF FLT WAS CLR AND THE FLT WAS VERY UNEVENTFUL. AFTER GETTING TO PROVO, MY INSTRUCTOR CALLED THE ZLC MGR. HE APPARENTLY SAID THAT IF YOUR ACFT IS NOT IFR CERTIFIED, YOU CANNOT ACCEPT AN IFR CLRNC. I WAS TRYING TO HELP THE CTLR IN THIS SIT TO BE AWARE OF OUR ACFT'S CAPABILITIES, OR IN THIS CASE THE LACK THEREOF. I AM NOT SURE WHY THIS WOULD HAVE CAUSED A PROB, BUT IT SEEMS TO HAVE SOME PEOPLE UPSET. CALLBACK CONVERSATION WITH RPTR ON ACN 493843 REVEALED THE FOLLOWING INFO: INST STUDENT STATED THAT HE HAD SINCE LEARNED FROM HIS INSTRUCTOR THAT IT WAS NOT LEGAL FOR HIM TO FILE THE IFR FLT PLAN AND THAT THE ACFT DOES NOT HAVE TO BE IFR EQUIPPED. HE FURTHER STATED THAT THE FAA FSDO INSPECTOR HAD COUNSELED HIS INSTRUCTOR, AND OTHER FLT SCHOOL INSTRUCTORS REGARDING THESE INST TRAINING ACFT AND PLT REQUIREMENTS.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.