37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 509535 |
Time | |
Date | 200104 |
Day | Mon |
Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | atc facility : zdc.artcc |
State Reference | VA |
Altitude | msl single value : 17000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Night |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | artcc : zdc.artcc |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Regional Jet CL65, Undifferentiated or Other Model |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | cruise : level |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Controlling Facilities | artcc : zdc.artcc |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Commercial Fixed Wing |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | descent : intermediate altitude |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : cfi pilot : flight engineer pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 180 flight time total : 5000 flight time type : 1000 |
ASRS Report | 509535 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Events | |
Anomaly | conflict : airborne less severe non adherence : published procedure |
Independent Detector | atc equipment other atc equipment : radar aircraft equipment : tcas other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued advisory controller : issued new clearance flight crew : took precautionary avoidance action |
Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | ATC Human Performance Flight Crew Human Performance |
Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Narrative:
We were level at 17000 ft MSL talking to center when he pointed out traffic off to our right. (We were on the SID out of rdu proceeding to lib.) the traffic was above us and approximately 2.5 mi away. We were told to maintain visual separation with the traffic and he was given a descent through our altitude. At the time we thought he was paralleling our course. After a min, it became evident that he was not paralleling, but converging with us. We asked the controller what he was doing and he said he was joining the SID in front of us. We had not been informed of this and there was no way we could maintain separation on our current heading. At that time we asked for a turn, and a few seconds later we got a TA and also advised ATC of this. His response was, 'are you requesting a turn?' I don't know how he could not see that we were on a conflicting course and how he thought we could still maintain visual and separation. At this point, the other aircraft verified that they had been given a descent, and the controller's response was, 'yes. The other aircraft was supposed to maintain a visual on you.' we did have a visual on him, but the controller had given us no choice, but to change heading because maintaining the SID would have put us too close together. I still do not know what the controller was thinking when he gave us those instructions. I believe the other aircraft was an air carrier X jet, and the separation at the time of our heading change was giving us a TA, but we never had an RA.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: ZDC CTLR APPLIES VISUAL SEPARATION BTWN A DEPARTING RDU CL65 AND ANOTHER ENRTE JET WHICH IS LATER QUESTIONED BY THE CL65 FLC.
Narrative: WE WERE LEVEL AT 17000 FT MSL TALKING TO CTR WHEN HE POINTED OUT TFC OFF TO OUR R. (WE WERE ON THE SID OUT OF RDU PROCEEDING TO LIB.) THE TFC WAS ABOVE US AND APPROX 2.5 MI AWAY. WE WERE TOLD TO MAINTAIN VISUAL SEPARATION WITH THE TFC AND HE WAS GIVEN A DSCNT THROUGH OUR ALT. AT THE TIME WE THOUGHT HE WAS PARALLELING OUR COURSE. AFTER A MIN, IT BECAME EVIDENT THAT HE WAS NOT PARALLELING, BUT CONVERGING WITH US. WE ASKED THE CTLR WHAT HE WAS DOING AND HE SAID HE WAS JOINING THE SID IN FRONT OF US. WE HAD NOT BEEN INFORMED OF THIS AND THERE WAS NO WAY WE COULD MAINTAIN SEPARATION ON OUR CURRENT HDG. AT THAT TIME WE ASKED FOR A TURN, AND A FEW SECONDS LATER WE GOT A TA AND ALSO ADVISED ATC OF THIS. HIS RESPONSE WAS, 'ARE YOU REQUESTING A TURN?' I DON'T KNOW HOW HE COULD NOT SEE THAT WE WERE ON A CONFLICTING COURSE AND HOW HE THOUGHT WE COULD STILL MAINTAIN VISUAL AND SEPARATION. AT THIS POINT, THE OTHER ACFT VERIFIED THAT THEY HAD BEEN GIVEN A DSCNT, AND THE CTLR'S RESPONSE WAS, 'YES. THE OTHER ACFT WAS SUPPOSED TO MAINTAIN A VISUAL ON YOU.' WE DID HAVE A VISUAL ON HIM, BUT THE CTLR HAD GIVEN US NO CHOICE, BUT TO CHANGE HDG BECAUSE MAINTAINING THE SID WOULD HAVE PUT US TOO CLOSE TOGETHER. I STILL DO NOT KNOW WHAT THE CTLR WAS THINKING WHEN HE GAVE US THOSE INSTRUCTIONS. I BELIEVE THE OTHER ACFT WAS AN ACR X JET, AND THE SEPARATION AT THE TIME OF OUR HDG CHANGE WAS GIVING US A TA, BUT WE NEVER HAD AN RA.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.