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Attributes | |
ACN | 510966 |
Time | |
Date | 200105 |
Day | Thu |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : lax.airport |
State Reference | CA |
Altitude | msl single value : 7000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Weather Elements | other |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : sct.tracon tower : stl.tower |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | B737-300 |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Navigation In Use | ils localizer & glide slope : 25l other |
Flight Phase | descent : approach |
Route In Use | approach : visual |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : sct.tracon |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Jetstream 41 |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Navigation In Use | ils localizer & glide slope : 25l |
Flight Phase | descent : approach |
Route In Use | approach : visual |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 279 flight time total : 7700 flight time type : 1295 |
ASRS Report | 510966 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Events | |
Anomaly | conflict : airborne critical inflight encounter other non adherence : clearance non adherence : published procedure other anomaly other other spatial deviation |
Independent Detector | aircraft equipment : tcas other controllera other flight crewa other flight crewb |
Resolutory Action | flight crew : took evasive action none taken : detected after the fact other |
Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew other |
Miss Distance | horizontal : 3000 vertical : 300 |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | Flight Crew Human Performance FAA Airspace Structure ATC Human Performance |
Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Operational Error |
Situations | |
ATC Facility | procedure or policy : sct.tracon |
Narrative:
Our clearance was to dscnd per the paradise four arrival to runway 25L. Near tejay intersection we received further clearance which was 'after fuelr intersection cleared ILS 25L approach.' we complied with the clearance. Our speed was 250 KTS. Shortly after joining the 25L localizer we were asked to reduce speed to 210 KTS. We crossed fuelr intersection at 8000 ft/210 KTS. We then started our descent to cross gate intersection at 5000 ft. At approximately 7200 ft approach amended our altitude to maintain 7000 ft for traffic. The captain was maintaining 7000 ft/210 KTS with 5 miles and haze looking into the sun, the traffic (which was a jetstream 41) was difficult to spot. When we spotted the traffic he was at our 11 O'clock position 2 1/2 miles (on the TCAS) 6000 ft. I reported the traffic in sight. Approach then cleared us to follow the traffic to runway 25L. I asked approach what the speed of the jetstream was. He replied 210 KTS. But on our TCAS we could see that we were overtaking the jetstream. At this time our position was approximately 15 DME on the localizer 7000 ft/210 KTS. The captain then started to reduce speed (extending flaps and gear), and requested that I keep the jetstream in sight. In the meantime, an md-80 (who had reported us in sight) was rapidly overtaking us from the rear. At approximately 10 DME we were at around 150 KTS. 3 1/2 miles in trail of the jetstream (spacing looked good), when the TCAS alert sounded I looked down at the TCAS and stated that we have traffic. Rapidly approaching from the rear and dscnding on top of us. We then got a TCAS 'RA' ordering a descent. The captain complied with the 'RA' on the TCAS. I watched the md-80 go from our 6 O'clock position on around to our 9 O'clock position. Looking to our left we spotted the md-80. He passed us and then crossed our flight path in front of us for a visual approach to 25R. We landed on 25L behind the jetstream. The md-80 landed 25R. There seemed to be a lot of confusion on the md-80 and ATC's part. The gentleman working the tower did an excellent job with taking control of the situation. Our approach was a normal stabilized approach from 1000 ft AGL on in. With all the distractions and confusion on the approach, the captain did an excellent job staying focused and flying the aircraft. Callback conversation with reporter revealed the following information: the B-737 was arriving straight in for 25L. The js-41 was arriving on the 45 from the south, for 25L. The md-80 was from the north, and overshot the turn for 25R. The 737 reporter contacted the sct facility after landing to find out controller training was in progress. The supervisor stated things got out of control. Heavy traffic volume contributed. Reporter thinks that too much traffic is trying to be stuffed into too small of a space.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: B-737, JS-41 AND AN MD-80 HAD LESS THAN LEGAL SPACING ARRIVING FOR 25L AND 25R IN LAX. CTLR TRAINING WAS IN PROGRESS CONTRIBUTING TO THE CLOSE ENCOUNTER.
Narrative: OUR CLRNC WAS TO DSCND PER THE PARADISE FOUR ARR TO RWY 25L. NEAR TEJAY INTXN WE RECEIVED FURTHER CLRNC WHICH WAS 'AFTER FUELR INTXN CLRED ILS 25L APCH.' WE COMPLIED WITH THE CLRNC. OUR SPEED WAS 250 KTS. SHORTLY AFTER JOINING THE 25L LOCALIZER WE WERE ASKED TO REDUCE SPEED TO 210 KTS. WE CROSSED FUELR INTXN AT 8000 FT/210 KTS. WE THEN STARTED OUR DSCNT TO CROSS GATE INTXN AT 5000 FT. AT APPROX 7200 FT APCH AMENDED OUR ALTITUDE TO MAINTAIN 7000 FT FOR TRAFFIC. THE CAPT WAS MAINTAINING 7000 FT/210 KTS WITH 5 MILES AND HAZE LOOKING INTO THE SUN, THE TFC (WHICH WAS A JETSTREAM 41) WAS DIFFICULT TO SPOT. WHEN WE SPOTTED THE TFC HE WAS AT OUR 11 O'CLOCK POS 2 1/2 MILES (ON THE TCAS) 6000 FT. I RPTED THE TFC IN SIGHT. APCH THEN CLRED US TO FOLLOW THE TFC TO RWY 25L. I ASKED APCH WHAT THE SPEED OF THE JETSTREAM WAS. HE REPLIED 210 KTS. BUT ON OUR TCAS WE COULD SEE THAT WE WERE OVERTAKING THE JETSTREAM. AT THIS TIME OUR POS WAS APPROX 15 DME ON THE LOCALIZER 7000 FT/210 KTS. THE CAPT THEN STARTED TO REDUCE SPEED (EXTENDING FLAPS AND GEAR), AND REQUESTED THAT I KEEP THE JETSTREAM IN SIGHT. IN THE MEANTIME, AN MD-80 (WHO HAD RPTED US IN SIGHT) WAS RAPIDLY OVERTAKING US FROM THE REAR. AT APPROX 10 DME WE WERE AT AROUND 150 KTS. 3 1/2 MILES IN TRAIL OF THE JETSTREAM (SPACING LOOKED GOOD), WHEN THE TCAS ALERT SOUNDED I LOOKED DOWN AT THE TCAS AND STATED THAT WE HAVE TFC. RAPIDLY APCHING FROM THE REAR AND DSCNDING ON TOP OF US. WE THEN GOT A TCAS 'RA' ORDERING A DSCNT. THE CAPT COMPLIED WITH THE 'RA' ON THE TCAS. I WATCHED THE MD-80 GO FROM OUR 6 O'CLOCK POS ON AROUND TO OUR 9 O'CLOCK POS. LOOKING TO OUR LEFT WE SPOTTED THE MD-80. HE PASSED US AND THEN CROSSED OUR FLT PATH IN FRONT OF US FOR A VISUAL APCH TO 25R. WE LANDED ON 25L BEHIND THE JETSTREAM. THE MD-80 LANDED 25R. THERE SEEMED TO BE A LOT OF CONFUSION ON THE MD-80 AND ATC'S PART. THE GENTLEMAN WORKING THE TWR DID AN EXCELLENT JOB WITH TAKING CTL OF THE SIT. OUR APCH WAS A NORMAL STABILIZED APCH FROM 1000 FT AGL ON IN. WITH ALL THE DISTRACTIONS AND CONFUSION ON THE APCH, THE CAPT DID AN EXCELLENT JOB STAYING FOCUSED AND FLYING THE ACFT. CALLBACK CONVERSATION WITH RPTR REVEALED THE FOLLOWING INFO: THE B-737 WAS ARRIVING STRAIGHT IN FOR 25L. THE JS-41 WAS ARRIVING ON THE 45 FROM THE S, FOR 25L. THE MD-80 WAS FROM THE N, AND OVERSHOT THE TURN FOR 25R. THE 737 RPTR CONTACTED THE SCT FACILITY AFTER LNDG TO FIND OUT CTLR TRAINING WAS IN PROGRESS. THE SUPVR STATED THINGS GOT OUT OF CONTROL. HEAVY TFC VOLUME CONTRIBUTED. RPTR THINKS THAT TOO MUCH TFC IS TRYING TO BE STUFFED INTO TOO SMALL OF A SPACE.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.