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A B737-500 first officer reported that he and the captain became confused by ZLA's descent clearance near ont.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 512850 |
| Time | |
| Date | 200105 |
| Day | Sun |
| Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | intersection : majek |
| State Reference | CA |
| Altitude | msl bound lower : 13500 msl bound upper : 14000 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | VMC |
| Light | Daylight |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | B737-500 |
| Flight Phase | descent : approach |
| Route In Use | arrival star : ziggy |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Qualification | pilot : atp |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 210 flight time total : 5100 flight time type : 800 |
| ASRS Report | 512850 |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | altitude deviation : crossing restriction not met non adherence : clearance non adherence : company policies non adherence : far non adherence : published procedure |
| Resolutory Action | controller : issued advisory |
| Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
| Supplementary | |
| Problem Areas | Flight Crew Human Performance ATC Human Performance |
| Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
| Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
We were flying the ziggy 3 arrival from palmdale. I was flying the aircraft, captain was PNF. Initial descent clearance was to FL230. Approaching palmdale, we were cleared to 13000 ft with a clearance to be at or below 14000 ft at majek. PNF acknowledged clearance and set 13000 ft in apa. I read back 13000 ft and began descent. At about 26 mi from pmd in a descent through 13600 ft, ZLA called and asked what our altitude was. PNF responded 13500 ft. Center replied that clearance was 14000 ft at majek then 13000 ft. PNF explained our understanding of clearance was at or below 14000 ft at majek. We asked center if they wanted a phone call. They said no problem, but 'for future reference, normal procedure' was 14000 ft then down to 13000 ft. Perhaps the initial clearance read was misunderstood, but I don't think so. I am almost certain readback was 'at or below 14000 ft at majek.' better clearance was received later on another flight to ontario. Clearance was 'cross majek at 14000 ft, hitop at 13000 ft.' this was much clrer. This wording might help in the future.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: A B737-500 FO RPTED THAT HE AND THE CAPT BECAME CONFUSED BY ZLA'S DSCNT CLRNC NEAR ONT.
Narrative: WE WERE FLYING THE ZIGGY 3 ARR FROM PALMDALE. I WAS FLYING THE ACFT, CAPT WAS PNF. INITIAL DSCNT CLRNC WAS TO FL230. APCHING PALMDALE, WE WERE CLRED TO 13000 FT WITH A CLRNC TO BE AT OR BELOW 14000 FT AT MAJEK. PNF ACKNOWLEDGED CLRNC AND SET 13000 FT IN APA. I READ BACK 13000 FT AND BEGAN DSCNT. AT ABOUT 26 MI FROM PMD IN A DSCNT THROUGH 13600 FT, ZLA CALLED AND ASKED WHAT OUR ALT WAS. PNF RESPONDED 13500 FT. CTR REPLIED THAT CLRNC WAS 14000 FT AT MAJEK THEN 13000 FT. PNF EXPLAINED OUR UNDERSTANDING OF CLRNC WAS AT OR BELOW 14000 FT AT MAJEK. WE ASKED CTR IF THEY WANTED A PHONE CALL. THEY SAID NO PROB, BUT 'FOR FUTURE REF, NORMAL PROC' WAS 14000 FT THEN DOWN TO 13000 FT. PERHAPS THE INITIAL CLRNC READ WAS MISUNDERSTOOD, BUT I DON'T THINK SO. I AM ALMOST CERTAIN READBACK WAS 'AT OR BELOW 14000 FT AT MAJEK.' BETTER CLRNC WAS RECEIVED LATER ON ANOTHER FLT TO ONTARIO. CLRNC WAS 'CROSS MAJEK AT 14000 FT, HITOP AT 13000 FT.' THIS WAS MUCH CLRER. THIS WORDING MIGHT HELP IN THE FUTURE.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.