37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 515760 |
Time | |
Date | 200106 |
Day | Mon |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : cmh.airport |
State Reference | OH |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 3000 msl bound upper : 4000 |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : cmh.tracon tower : pit.tower |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | A320 |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Navigation In Use | ils localizer only : 10l |
Flight Phase | descent : approach |
Route In Use | approach : visual |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : cmh.tracon |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | B727 Undifferentiated or Other Model |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Navigation In Use | ils localizer only : 10l |
Flight Phase | descent : approach |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time type : 266 |
ASRS Report | 515760 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Events | |
Anomaly | altitude deviation : excursion from assigned altitude non adherence : clearance non adherence : company policies non adherence : far non adherence : published procedure other anomaly other other spatial deviation |
Independent Detector | aircraft equipment : tcas other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance none taken : unable |
Consequence | other |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
We were approximately 15 mi wnw of cmh runway 10L, talking to approach control. I heard approach clear us to 4000 ft and to 'expect' the visual for runway 10L. As I continued inbound, the captain said we were cleared the visual. I queried him on this as I said I thought approach said 'expect' the visual. The captain said no, we were cleared, at which point I turned 20 degrees left and descended to the FAF altitude of 3000 ft. Shortly after we were turned over to another controller who was turning a B727 from the east onto the runway 10L final. The controller asked if we had the traffic in sight and to follow him, additionally he said we were 50 KTS faster. At that point we were 3 mi in trail. We decelerated and made a normal approach. I do not believe we had been cleared for the visual, breaking both altitude, assigned heading, and possibly separation. I knew I heard expect, and I queried. The captain should have clarified with ATC. I should have been more persistent. The reluctance of capts to clarify clrncs when I hear something else is maddening. The fact that another crew member says he hears something else should be a red flag, but many capts, for some reason or another, do not want to ask for a repeat. This is not the first time this has occurred, but I believe this is the first potential violation due to reluctance to clarify a clearance. It was not that busy.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: A320 CREW DID NOT CLARIFY WHETHER THEY WERE CLRED FOR APCH AT CMH.
Narrative: WE WERE APPROX 15 MI WNW OF CMH RWY 10L, TALKING TO APCH CTL. I HEARD APCH CLR US TO 4000 FT AND TO 'EXPECT' THE VISUAL FOR RWY 10L. AS I CONTINUED INBOUND, THE CAPT SAID WE WERE CLRED THE VISUAL. I QUERIED HIM ON THIS AS I SAID I THOUGHT APCH SAID 'EXPECT' THE VISUAL. THE CAPT SAID NO, WE WERE CLRED, AT WHICH POINT I TURNED 20 DEGS L AND DSNDED TO THE FAF ALT OF 3000 FT. SHORTLY AFTER WE WERE TURNED OVER TO ANOTHER CTLR WHO WAS TURNING A B727 FROM THE E ONTO THE RWY 10L FINAL. THE CTLR ASKED IF WE HAD THE TFC IN SIGHT AND TO FOLLOW HIM, ADDITIONALLY HE SAID WE WERE 50 KTS FASTER. AT THAT POINT WE WERE 3 MI IN TRAIL. WE DECELERATED AND MADE A NORMAL APCH. I DO NOT BELIEVE WE HAD BEEN CLRED FOR THE VISUAL, BREAKING BOTH ALT, ASSIGNED HDG, AND POSSIBLY SEPARATION. I KNEW I HEARD EXPECT, AND I QUERIED. THE CAPT SHOULD HAVE CLARIFIED WITH ATC. I SHOULD HAVE BEEN MORE PERSISTENT. THE RELUCTANCE OF CAPTS TO CLARIFY CLRNCS WHEN I HEAR SOMETHING ELSE IS MADDENING. THE FACT THAT ANOTHER CREW MEMBER SAYS HE HEARS SOMETHING ELSE SHOULD BE A RED FLAG, BUT MANY CAPTS, FOR SOME REASON OR ANOTHER, DO NOT WANT TO ASK FOR A REPEAT. THIS IS NOT THE FIRST TIME THIS HAS OCCURRED, BUT I BELIEVE THIS IS THE FIRST POTENTIAL VIOLATION DUE TO RELUCTANCE TO CLARIFY A CLRNC. IT WAS NOT THAT BUSY.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.