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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 518944 |
Time | |
Date | 200107 |
Day | Wed |
Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | intersection : civet |
State Reference | CA |
Altitude | msl single value : 19000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Night |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | artcc : zla.artcc tracon : sct.tracon |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | B757 Undifferentiated or Other Model |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Navigation In Use | other |
Flight Phase | descent : approach |
Route In Use | arrival star : civet 4 |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : multi engine pilot : commercial pilot : cfi pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 150 flight time total : 11500 flight time type : 1200 |
ASRS Report | 518944 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : cfi pilot : instrument pilot : multi engine pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 200 flight time total : 7000 flight time type : 1000 |
ASRS Report | 519136 |
Events | |
Anomaly | altitude deviation : crossing restriction not met non adherence : clearance non adherence : published procedure |
Independent Detector | atc equipment other atc equipment : radar other controllera |
Resolutory Action | flight crew : returned to original clearance other |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | Flight Crew Human Performance ATC Human Performance |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
We were operating from chicago to lax. Our routing was direct to civet intersection. Our filed route was the civet 4 arrival. It is very common for the arrival to be changed back and forth with the mitts arrival. As we approached civet, ZLA had been informing aircraft that they would be assigning their specific arrival by socal approach. When we were switched to socal approach, we checked in at FL190. We were told to 'fly the civet 4 arrival.' we mentioned that 'our gates are on the north side,' hoping to be given the mitts 1 arrival to runway 24R. He said he would work it out if he could. As we approached civet intersection, my first officer and I were wondering when we were going to be given clearance to descend or to cross civet at 17000 ft or below, on the arrival, or to comply with the arrival restrs. Specifically we were waiting to hear the controller state 'descend via the civet 4 arrival.' (see enclosed copy of a recent company memo to our pilot group.) we never received the descent clearance. As we arrived over civet, at FL190, we asked if we could start our descent, the controller then told us to follow the arrival restrs. We complied with the remaining restrs. Obviously there was confusion over the assignment to follow the civet 4 arrival and whether to follow the arrival altitude. Both my first officer and I did not feel that we had been cleared to comply with the arrival restrs. In hindsight, we should have questioned the clearance earlier. There are a few problems with lax arrs. It is very common to FLIP between 2, sometimes 3, arrs. Frequently these changes are assigned at very inopportune times. We were prepared for these this time, and we were also listening for the descent clearance, and we still had confusion.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: B757 FLC FAILED TO DSND AND MAKE REQUIRED XING RESTR SPECIFIED ON THE STAR TO WHICH THEY HAD BEEN CLRED, DUE TO ANTICIPATING A MORE DESIRABLE STAR REQUESTED EARLIER.
Narrative: WE WERE OPERATING FROM CHICAGO TO LAX. OUR ROUTING WAS DIRECT TO CIVET INTXN. OUR FILED RTE WAS THE CIVET 4 ARR. IT IS VERY COMMON FOR THE ARR TO BE CHANGED BACK AND FORTH WITH THE MITTS ARR. AS WE APCHED CIVET, ZLA HAD BEEN INFORMING ACFT THAT THEY WOULD BE ASSIGNING THEIR SPECIFIC ARR BY SOCAL APCH. WHEN WE WERE SWITCHED TO SOCAL APCH, WE CHKED IN AT FL190. WE WERE TOLD TO 'FLY THE CIVET 4 ARR.' WE MENTIONED THAT 'OUR GATES ARE ON THE N SIDE,' HOPING TO BE GIVEN THE MITTS 1 ARR TO RWY 24R. HE SAID HE WOULD WORK IT OUT IF HE COULD. AS WE APCHED CIVET INTXN, MY FO AND I WERE WONDERING WHEN WE WERE GOING TO BE GIVEN CLRNC TO DSND OR TO CROSS CIVET AT 17000 FT OR BELOW, ON THE ARR, OR TO COMPLY WITH THE ARR RESTRS. SPECIFICALLY WE WERE WAITING TO HEAR THE CTLR STATE 'DSND VIA THE CIVET 4 ARR.' (SEE ENCLOSED COPY OF A RECENT COMPANY MEMO TO OUR PLT GROUP.) WE NEVER RECEIVED THE DSCNT CLRNC. AS WE ARRIVED OVER CIVET, AT FL190, WE ASKED IF WE COULD START OUR DSCNT, THE CTLR THEN TOLD US TO FOLLOW THE ARR RESTRS. WE COMPLIED WITH THE REMAINING RESTRS. OBVIOUSLY THERE WAS CONFUSION OVER THE ASSIGNMENT TO FOLLOW THE CIVET 4 ARR AND WHETHER TO FOLLOW THE ARR ALT. BOTH MY FO AND I DID NOT FEEL THAT WE HAD BEEN CLRED TO COMPLY WITH THE ARR RESTRS. IN HINDSIGHT, WE SHOULD HAVE QUESTIONED THE CLRNC EARLIER. THERE ARE A FEW PROBS WITH LAX ARRS. IT IS VERY COMMON TO FLIP BTWN 2, SOMETIMES 3, ARRS. FREQUENTLY THESE CHANGES ARE ASSIGNED AT VERY INOPPORTUNE TIMES. WE WERE PREPARED FOR THESE THIS TIME, AND WE WERE ALSO LISTENING FOR THE DSCNT CLRNC, AND WE STILL HAD CONFUSION.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.