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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 524683 |
Time | |
Date | 200109 |
Day | Fri |
Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | navaid : ewc.vortac |
State Reference | PA |
Altitude | msl single value : 35000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | artcc : zob.artcc |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | B737-300 |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Navigation In Use | other other vortac |
Flight Phase | cruise : holding ground : preflight |
Route In Use | enroute airway : j64.airway |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Controlling Facilities | artcc : zob.artcc |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Commercial Fixed Wing |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Navigation In Use | other vortac |
Flight Phase | cruise : holding |
Route In Use | enroute airway : j64.airway |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
ASRS Report | 524683 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
ASRS Report | 524686 |
Events | |
Anomaly | conflict : airborne critical non adherence : published procedure non adherence : far other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | other flight crewa other flight crewb |
Resolutory Action | flight crew : took evasive action none taken : detected after the fact other |
Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew faa : investigated other |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | ATC Human Performance FAA |
Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Operational Error |
Narrative:
We were going from white plains to ord and given a holding clearance from ZOB to hold east ewc on J64. Right hand turns, 10 mi leg at FL350. We programmed the hold in the FMC and manually entered the holding information on our radios. We reported entering the hold at FL350 at XA50. During this time air carrier flight XXX was given a holding clearance to hold east of wec on J64 at the 30 DME fix. Right hand turns, 10 mi legs. As we were entering our second turn inbound we received a TA. We looked for traffic but didn't see it. This was immediately followed by an RA TA which time we followed thera and began a descent. I reported the RA to ZOB. This time air carrier flight XXX receive a RA an began a climb. They reported this to ZOB ATC as well. We then received a clear of conflict and we climbed back to FL350. We descended approximately 500 ft during RA. Air carrier flight XXX received clear and descending back to FL350. I asked ZOB center what hey plan to do as there were two first officer us in a holding pattern at 350? This time he gave air carrier flight XXX a clearance to hold at 40 DME fix which they acknowledged and did. While inbound to fix ZOB called us and told us to call ZOB about a possible violation. I was told they are investigating a violation of protected airspace. It was later determined both air carrier flts were on track as far as altitude and airspeed in regard to the clearance. The union rep was told by ZOB investigative board that they had determined that this incident was controller error.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: B737-300 CREW AND ANOTHER COMPANY ACFT WERE GIVEN A HOLD AT THE SAME POINT, AT THE SAME ALT IN ZOB CLASS A.
Narrative: WE WERE GOING FROM WHITE PLAINS TO ORD AND GIVEN A HOLDING CLRNC FROM ZOB TO HOLD E EWC ON J64. R HAND TURNS, 10 MI LEG AT FL350. WE PROGRAMMED THE HOLD IN THE FMC AND MANUALLY ENTERED THE HOLDING INFO ON OUR RADIOS. WE REPORTED ENTERING THE HOLD AT FL350 AT XA50. DURING THIS TIME ACR FLT XXX WAS GIVEN A HOLDING CLRNC TO HOLD E OF WEC ON J64 AT THE 30 DME FIX. R HAND TURNS, 10 MI LEGS. AS WE WERE ENTERING OUR SECOND TURN INBOUND WE RECEIVED A TA. WE LOOKED FOR TFC BUT DIDN'T SEE IT. THIS WAS IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWED BY AN RA TA WHICH TIME WE FOLLOWED THERA AND BEGAN A DESCENT. I REPORTED THE RA TO ZOB. THIS TIME ACR FLT XXX RECEIVE A RA AN BEGAN A CLIMB. THEY REPORTED THIS TO ZOB ATC AS WELL. WE THEN RECEIVED A CLR OF CONFLICT AND WE CLIMBED BACK TO FL350. WE DESCENDED APPROX 500 FT DURING RA. ACR FLT XXX RECEIVED CLR AND DESCENDING BACK TO FL350. I ASKED ZOB CENTER WHAT HEY PLAN TO DO AS THERE WERE TWO FO US IN A HOLDING PATTERN AT 350? THIS TIME HE GAVE ACR FLT XXX A CLRNC TO HOLD AT 40 DME FIX WHICH THEY ACKNOWLEDGED AND DID. WHILE INBOUND TO FIX ZOB CALLED US AND TOLD US TO CALL ZOB ABOUT A POSSIBLE VIOLATION. I WAS TOLD THEY ARE INVESTIGATING A VIOLATION OF PROTECTED AIRSPACE. IT WAS LATER DETERMINED BOTH ACR FLTS WERE ON TRACK AS FAR AS ALT AND AIRSPD IN REGARD TO THE CLRNC. THE UNION REP WAS TOLD BY ZOB INVESTIGATIVE BOARD THAT THEY HAD DETERMINED THAT THIS INCIDENT WAS CTLR ERROR.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.