MD88 crew was given improper controller handling in ZID class east airspace.

Attributes
ACN	525828
Time
Date	200109
Day	Fri
Local Time Of Day	1801 To 2400
Place
Locale Reference	navaid : flm.vor
State Reference	KY
Altitude	msl single value : 10000
Environment
Flight Conditions	VMC
Light	Daylight
Aircraft 1
Controlling Facilities	artcc : zid.artcc tracon : pit.tracon
Operator	common carrier : air carrier
Make Model Name	MD-80 Series (DC-9-80) Undifferentiated or Other Model
Operating Under FAR Part	Part 121
Flight Phase	descent : intermediate altitude
Flight Plan	IFR
Person 1
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : first officer
Qualification	pilot : atp
Experience	flight time last 90 days : 200 flight time total : 5000 flight time type : 1000
ASRS Report	525828
Person 2
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	controller : radar flight crew : captain oversight : pic
Qualification	pilot : atp pilot : flight engineer
Experience	flight time last 90 days : 200 flight time total : 13000 flight time type : 19000
ASRS Report	525954
Events
Anomaly	other anomaly other
Independent Detector	other controllera
Resolutory Action	controller : issued alert controller : issued new clearance none taken : detected after the fact
Supplementary
Problem Areas	ATC Human Performance
Primary Problem	ATC Human Performance
Air Traffic Incident	other

Narrative:

Filed the sweed 6 arrival from hvq. Somewhere west of hvq, we were given the clearance to proceed direct sweed intersection and cross 35 NM east of sweed at FL240 and continue descent to FL180. We made the restr and as we were continuing the descent, ZID gave us a clearance to proceed direct to flm and cross 15 NM east of flm at 10000 ft. (At least 10000 ft is what we thought was said -- we confirmed it and both pointed at the altitude in the altitude set window.) this restr was met early by probably 20-30 mi. ZID questioned our clearance, and we said '15 mi east of flm at 10000 ft.' he said 'ok, we need you at 11000 ft thought.' we climbed back to 11000 ft and no conflicts were noted. I think the controller wasn't sure if he gave us the wrong clearance, and we weren't sure if maybe we had misheard the clearance (of course, after the fact). The clearance of '15 mi east of flm at 10000 ft' did not seem suspect at the time, or we would have questioned it. Also, because we weren't flying the arrival anymore, point for point, we didn't use the FMS for altitude restrs. If the clearance had said proceed direct obban (15 mi east of flm) 'maintain 10000 ft,' more than likely I would have crosschecked 'obban' on the arrival and seen 11000 ft as the restr. From our point of view and we usually do this, we should always xchk the altitude given on the arrival with that given to us. From a controller's perspective, if they can give us the 'directs' to the name of the point on the arrival where the restr is, it would eliminate these incidents -- ie, give the clearance, cleared direct obban maintain 11000 ft versus flm/-15 maintain 11000 ft. This keys us 'FMS' guys to check the arrival and see what happens at obban. Then if there is an altitude difference we can question it. It is hard to question something that is otherwise not suspect. This reinforces how important it is to look at the arrs and see what the restrs are well in advance to help catch errors -- whoever's fault they may be.

Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: MD88 CREW WAS GIVEN IMPROPER CTLR HANDLING IN ZID CLASS E AIRSPACE.

Narrative: FILED THE SWEED 6 ARR FROM HVQ. SOMEWHERE W OF HVQ, WE WERE GIVEN THE CLRNC TO PROCEED DIRECT SWEED INTXN AND CROSS 35 NM E OF SWEED AT FL240 AND CONTINUE DSCNT TO FL180. WE MADE THE RESTR AND AS WE WERE CONTINUING THE DSCNT, ZID GAVE US A CLRNC TO PROCEED DIRECT TO FLM AND CROSS 15 NM E OF FLM AT 10000 FT. (AT LEAST 10000 FT IS WHAT WE THOUGHT WAS SAID -- WE CONFIRMED IT AND BOTH POINTED AT THE ALT IN THE ALT SET WINDOW.) THIS RESTR WAS MET EARLY BY PROBABLY 20-30 MI. ZID QUESTIONED OUR CLRNC, AND WE SAID '15 MI E OF FLM AT 10000 FT.' HE SAID 'OK, WE NEED YOU AT 11000 FT THOUGHT.' WE CLBED BACK TO 11000 FT AND NO CONFLICTS WERE NOTED. I THINK THE CTLR WASN'T SURE IF HE GAVE US THE WRONG CLRNC, AND WE WEREN'T SURE IF MAYBE WE HAD MISHEARD THE CLRNC (OF COURSE, AFTER THE FACT). THE CLRNC OF '15 MI E OF FLM AT 10000 FT' DID NOT SEEM SUSPECT AT THE TIME, OR WE WOULD HAVE QUESTIONED IT. ALSO, BECAUSE WE WEREN'T FLYING THE ARR ANYMORE, POINT FOR POINT, WE DIDN'T USE THE FMS FOR ALT RESTRS. IF THE CLRNC HAD SAID PROCEED DIRECT OBBAN (15 MI E OF FLM) 'MAINTAIN 10000 FT,' MORE THAN LIKELY I WOULD HAVE XCHKED 'OBBAN' ON THE ARR AND SEEN 11000 FT AS THE RESTR. FROM OUR POINT OF VIEW AND WE USUALLY DO THIS, WE SHOULD ALWAYS XCHK THE ALT GIVEN ON THE ARR WITH THAT GIVEN TO US. FROM A CTLR'S PERSPECTIVE, IF THEY CAN GIVE US THE 'DIRECTS' TO THE NAME OF THE POINT ON THE ARR WHERE THE RESTR IS, IT WOULD ELIMINATE THESE INCIDENTS -- IE, GIVE THE CLRNC, CLRED DIRECT OBBAN MAINTAIN 11000 FT VERSUS FLM/-15 MAINTAIN 11000 FT. THIS KEYS US 'FMS' GUYS TO CHK THE ARR AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS AT OBBAN. THEN IF THERE IS AN ALT DIFFERENCE WE CAN QUESTION IT. IT IS HARD TO QUESTION SOMETHING THAT IS OTHERWISE NOT SUSPECT. THIS REINFORCES HOW IMPORTANT IT IS TO LOOK AT THE ARRS AND SEE WHAT THE RESTRS ARE WELL IN ADVANCE TO HELP CATCH ERRORS -- WHOEVER'S FAULT THEY MAY BE.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.