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A B737-700 asks for relief from an altitude crossing restr at fuzzy when the PIC, PF, executes an FMC entry prior to the first officer reviewing it, on frequency with ZLA, ca.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 536496 |
| Time | |
| Date | 200201 |
| Day | Sat |
| Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | intersection : fuzzy |
| State Reference | NV |
| Altitude | msl bound lower : 16000 msl bound upper : 20500 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | VMC |
| Light | Daylight |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | artcc : zla.artcc tracon : l30.tracon |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | B737-700 |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Navigation In Use | other |
| Flight Phase | descent : intermediate altitude |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Qualification | pilot : atp |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 240 flight time total : 10000 flight time type : 5200 |
| ASRS Report | 536496 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | altitude deviation : undershoot non adherence : clearance non adherence : company policies non adherence : published procedure other anomaly other anomaly other |
| Independent Detector | aircraft equipment : altitude alert other flight crewa other flight crewb |
| Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance controller : separated traffic other |
| Consequence | other |
| Supplementary | |
| Problem Areas | Environmental Factor Flight Crew Human Performance Navigational Facility |
| Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
| Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
Captain was flying. I was off frequency (ATC) to get ATIS for las. Had to delay ATIS because of mountain range between arrival and las -- very hard to receive ATIS until lower, around the mountain range and closer to las vegas. While off, ATC cleared the aircraft to cross fuzzy at 16000 ft and 280 KTS. When I returned to frequency, captain said that we were cleared to cross fuzzy at 16000 ft, 280 KTS. I saw we were very close to fuzzy. Captain had speed brake out and a good rate of descent. He asked me to ask ATC for altitude relief at fuzzy as we would not make the restr. When I looked at the FMC, I found that the captain had put to cross fuzzy at FL280 and 160 KTS. This is why he thought he was going to make on the FMC, and not going to make it, as it was happening. Captain said he forgot to have me check the entry before executing the FMC. Las approach, after switching to los angeles, gave us altitude relief, and a descent to 13000 ft, our speed was up from the descent and we were gaining on the aircraft ahead of us. Las gave us a vector to the right for spacing. We rejoined the arrival for an uneventful landing. Las ATIS is hard to get until around the mountain range. You can be off frequency for several mins trying to get ATIS at a time when a lot of things are happening, frequency changes, altitude changes, headings, etc. Remember to execute the FMC after the PNF checks the entry.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: A B737-700 ASKS FOR RELIEF FROM AN ALT XING RESTR AT FUZZY WHEN THE PIC, PF, EXECUTES AN FMC ENTRY PRIOR TO THE FO REVIEWING IT, ON FREQ WITH ZLA, CA.
Narrative: CAPT WAS FLYING. I WAS OFF FREQ (ATC) TO GET ATIS FOR LAS. HAD TO DELAY ATIS BECAUSE OF MOUNTAIN RANGE BTWN ARR AND LAS -- VERY HARD TO RECEIVE ATIS UNTIL LOWER, AROUND THE MOUNTAIN RANGE AND CLOSER TO LAS VEGAS. WHILE OFF, ATC CLRED THE ACFT TO CROSS FUZZY AT 16000 FT AND 280 KTS. WHEN I RETURNED TO FREQ, CAPT SAID THAT WE WERE CLRED TO CROSS FUZZY AT 16000 FT, 280 KTS. I SAW WE WERE VERY CLOSE TO FUZZY. CAPT HAD SPD BRAKE OUT AND A GOOD RATE OF DSCNT. HE ASKED ME TO ASK ATC FOR ALT RELIEF AT FUZZY AS WE WOULD NOT MAKE THE RESTR. WHEN I LOOKED AT THE FMC, I FOUND THAT THE CAPT HAD PUT TO CROSS FUZZY AT FL280 AND 160 KTS. THIS IS WHY HE THOUGHT HE WAS GOING TO MAKE ON THE FMC, AND NOT GOING TO MAKE IT, AS IT WAS HAPPENING. CAPT SAID HE FORGOT TO HAVE ME CHK THE ENTRY BEFORE EXECUTING THE FMC. LAS APCH, AFTER SWITCHING TO LOS ANGELES, GAVE US ALT RELIEF, AND A DSCNT TO 13000 FT, OUR SPD WAS UP FROM THE DSCNT AND WE WERE GAINING ON THE ACFT AHEAD OF US. LAS GAVE US A VECTOR TO THE R FOR SPACING. WE REJOINED THE ARR FOR AN UNEVENTFUL LNDG. LAS ATIS IS HARD TO GET UNTIL AROUND THE MOUNTAIN RANGE. YOU CAN BE OFF FREQ FOR SEVERAL MINS TRYING TO GET ATIS AT A TIME WHEN A LOT OF THINGS ARE HAPPENING, FREQ CHANGES, ALT CHANGES, HDGS, ETC. REMEMBER TO EXECUTE THE FMC AFTER THE PNF CHKS THE ENTRY.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.