37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 539844 |
Time | |
Date | 200203 |
Day | Fri |
Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : sus.airport |
State Reference | MO |
Altitude | agl single value : 0 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Operator | general aviation : personal |
Make Model Name | Travelair 95 |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 91 |
Flight Phase | ground : taxi |
Flight Plan | None |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | government : faa |
Function | other personnel other oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : cfi pilot : multi engine pilot : instrument pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 50 flight time total : 6000 flight time type : 0 |
ASRS Report | 539844 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | other |
Function | instruction : trainee |
Events | |
Anomaly | incursion : runway non adherence : published procedure non adherence : far |
Independent Detector | other other : #1 |
Resolutory Action | none taken : anomaly accepted other |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | Flight Crew Human Performance FAA ATC Human Performance Airport |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Situations | |
ATC Facility | procedure or policy : sus.tower |
Narrative:
I am an FAA inspector. I've recently given 709 rides in which the pilot failed to cross the hold line when clearing the runway. The reason both times was 'their instructor told them to stop there.' the north runway at sus does have lines painted in such a way that it is necessary to block the parallel taxiway if you clear the runway and cross the hold line. I saw a need for CFI education, but before taking on that task, I called sus tower to talk to the controller. He told me such things as 'we clear for takeoff when the other aircraft is off the runway.' however, to him, 'off the runway' meant off the physical runway -- not off and clear. He said he didn't care where the airplane stopped once it got off 'the runway,' which to him did not include the safety zone inside the hold lines. I talked to a region runway incursion specialist about this ATC conversation and he said 'we still have a lot of educating to do.' I'm just stunned that something so linked with runway incursions could not be fully understood by all, including and especially ATC.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: AN FAA INSPECTOR DISCOVERS THAT CHECKEES FAILED TO CLR THE RWY, NOT CROSSING THE HOLD LINE, APPARENTLY FOLLOWING CFI INSTRUCTIONS NOT TO BLOCK THE PARALLEL TXWY. THE CTLR CONSIDERED THE EXITING ACFT WAS 'CLR OF RWY' WHEN NOT BEYOND THE HOLD SHORT LINES.
Narrative: I AM AN FAA INSPECTOR. I'VE RECENTLY GIVEN 709 RIDES IN WHICH THE PLT FAILED TO CROSS THE HOLD LINE WHEN CLRING THE RWY. THE REASON BOTH TIMES WAS 'THEIR INSTRUCTOR TOLD THEM TO STOP THERE.' THE N RWY AT SUS DOES HAVE LINES PAINTED IN SUCH A WAY THAT IT IS NECESSARY TO BLOCK THE PARALLEL TXWY IF YOU CLR THE RWY AND CROSS THE HOLD LINE. I SAW A NEED FOR CFI EDUCATION, BUT BEFORE TAKING ON THAT TASK, I CALLED SUS TWR TO TALK TO THE CTLR. HE TOLD ME SUCH THINGS AS 'WE CLR FOR TKOF WHEN THE OTHER ACFT IS OFF THE RWY.' HOWEVER, TO HIM, 'OFF THE RWY' MEANT OFF THE PHYSICAL RWY -- NOT OFF AND CLR. HE SAID HE DIDN'T CARE WHERE THE AIRPLANE STOPPED ONCE IT GOT OFF 'THE RWY,' WHICH TO HIM DID NOT INCLUDE THE SAFETY ZONE INSIDE THE HOLD LINES. I TALKED TO A REGION RWY INCURSION SPECIALIST ABOUT THIS ATC CONVERSATION AND HE SAID 'WE STILL HAVE A LOT OF EDUCATING TO DO.' I'M JUST STUNNED THAT SOMETHING SO LINKED WITH RWY INCURSIONS COULD NOT BE FULLY UNDERSTOOD BY ALL, INCLUDING AND ESPECIALLY ATC.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.