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37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
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Attributes | |
ACN | 542825 |
Time | |
Date | 200203 |
Day | Fri |
Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : lga.airport |
State Reference | NY |
Altitude | agl single value : 0 |
Aircraft 1 | |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | B737 Undifferentiated or Other Model |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | ground : taxi |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Controlling Facilities | tower : lga.tower |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | B757 Undifferentiated or Other Model |
Flight Phase | ground : taxi |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
ASRS Report | 542825 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Events | |
Anomaly | non adherence : published procedure other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | other controllera other flight crewa other flight crewb |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | ATC Human Performance |
Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Narrative:
We were number 2 for takeoff behind a B757. I asked the first officer to advise the tower that we would need 2 mins behind the B757. This was done while the B757 was still on the taxiway. The local controller said he would do that, but in the future-to advise the clearance delivery controller in advance. This I thought was stupid, since I had no way of knowing if I would be behind a B757 30 mins from then. But what prompts this report is what the controller said next. He informed me that there was no time requirement behind a B757. I tried to explain it was 4 miles or 2 mins. He then said that only applies to heavy jets, not the B757, unless the B757 was calling itself 'heavy'. What made this even worse was he said he was a supervisor. It states in our manual and in the aim, that a B757 is given the same separation standards as a heavy jet. I feel the lack of knowledge on the part of this controller should warrant his removal from operational control of aircraft until additional training is provided. In fact, I have had one other problem of the same type at lga. At no other place have I experienced any difficulties with wake turbulence problems. Only at lga. Callback conversation with reporter revealed the following information: the reporter stated lga airport does not handle very many heavy jet type aircraft. He said most are the smaller types, such as the B-757 and he believes the controllers at lga don't have much experience with wake turbulence separation. When he told the controller he would call later and talk to the tower supervisor, the person on the frequency said he was the supervisor.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: B-737 CAPT CLAIMS A LGA TWR CTLR/SUPVR STATED THERE WAS NO TIME REQUIREMENT FOR WAKE TURBULENCE DEPARTING BEHIND A B-757.
Narrative: WE WERE NUMBER 2 FOR TKOF BEHIND A B757. I ASKED THE FO TO ADVISE THE TWR THAT WE WOULD NEED 2 MINS BEHIND THE B757. THIS WAS DONE WHILE THE B757 WAS STILL ON THE TXWY. THE LOCAL CTLR SAID HE WOULD DO THAT, BUT IN THE FUTURE-TO ADVISE THE CLRNC DELIVERY CTLR IN ADVANCE. THIS I THOUGHT WAS STUPID, SINCE I HAD NO WAY OF KNOWING IF I WOULD BE BEHIND A B757 30 MINS FROM THEN. BUT WHAT PROMPTS THIS REPORT IS WHAT THE CTLR SAID NEXT. HE INFORMED ME THAT THERE WAS NO TIME REQUIREMENT BEHIND A B757. I TRIED TO EXPLAIN IT WAS 4 MILES OR 2 MINS. HE THEN SAID THAT ONLY APPLIES TO HEAVY JETS, NOT THE B757, UNLESS THE B757 WAS CALLING ITSELF 'HEAVY'. WHAT MADE THIS EVEN WORSE WAS HE SAID HE WAS A SUPVR. IT STATES IN OUR MANUAL AND IN THE AIM, THAT A B757 IS GIVEN THE SAME SEPARATION STANDARDS AS A HEAVY JET. I FEEL THE LACK OF KNOWLEDGE ON THE PART OF THIS CTLR SHOULD WARRANT HIS REMOVAL FROM OPERATIONAL CTL OF ACFT UNTIL ADDITIONAL TRAINING IS PROVIDED. IN FACT, I HAVE HAD ONE OTHER PROBLEM OF THE SAME TYPE AT LGA. AT NO OTHER PLACE HAVE I EXPERIENCED ANY DIFFICULTIES WITH WAKE TURBULENCE PROBS. ONLY AT LGA. CALLBACK CONVERSATION WITH RPTR REVEALED THE FOLLOWING INFO: THE RPTR STATED LGA ARPT DOES NOT HANDLE VERY MANY HEAVY JET TYPE ACFT. HE SAID MOST ARE THE SMALLER TYPES, SUCH AS THE B-757 AND HE BELIEVES THE CTLRS AT LGA DON'T HAVE MUCH EXPERIENCE WITH WAKE TURBULENCE SEPARATION. WHEN HE TOLD THE CTLR HE WOULD CALL LATER AND TALK TO THE TWR SUPVR, THE PERSON ON THE FREQ SAID HE WAS THE SUPVR.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.