During an instrument rating training flight, sfo class B was entered after approach controller had c...

Attributes
ACN	546666
Time
Date	200205
Day	Sun
Local Time Of Day	1201 To 1800
Place
Locale Reference	airport : sql.airport
State Reference	CA
Altitude	msl single value : 1700
Environment
Flight Conditions	VMC
Light	Daylight
Aircraft 1
Controlling Facilities	tower : sql.tower tower : ord.tower
Operator	general aviation : personal
Make Model Name	PA-30 Twin Comanche
Operating Under FAR Part	Part 91
Flight Phase	descent : approach
Flight Plan	IFR
Person 1
Affiliation	other
Function	instruction : instructor
Qualification	pilot : commercial pilot : cfi pilot : instrument pilot : multi engine
Experience	flight time total : 1700 flight time type : 16
ASRS Report	546666
Person 2
Affiliation	other
Function	instruction : trainee
Events
Anomaly	airspace violation : entry non adherence : far non adherence : clearance
Independent Detector	aircraft equipment other aircraft equipment : altimeter other flight crewa
Resolutory Action	flight crew : exited penetrated airspace none taken : detected after the fact
Supplementary
Problem Areas	Flight Crew Human Performance Airspace Structure ATC Human Performance
Primary Problem	Flight Crew Human Performance
Air Traffic Incident	Pilot Deviation

Narrative:

We were on an IFR flight plan, cleared to land at san carlos, ca, airport (sql). Center had not given us permission to descend until quite late in the approach sequence. We were cleared for a visual approach to runway 30, and we were quite pressed to lose a lot of altitude (2800 ft) from our last assigned altitude (4000 ft) and the altitude the tower controller wanted us to be at (something similar to 'cross over the airport at or above 1200 ft, enter right downwind runway 30'). Complicating our descent, the tower controller pointed out traffic to follow, a cessna (172, I believe), that was only about 1 mi ahead of us. We were still too fast to lower our landing gear, making it very difficult to lose the altitude and lose the airspeed we needed. As such, it is possible we didn't descend far enough into the class D airspace and might have cut an edge of the sfo class B (over the western edge of, and possibly above, sql's class D) during our descent. Sql tower folks didn't say anything in the air or on the ground, and we were so busy keeping track of our traffic to prevent us from overtaking them, or coming down on top of them, we're not exactly sure if we did or didn't momentarily enter class B. If not, of course, this report is moot. If we did, it was simply because had we descended any more rapidly, the distance (vertically and laterally) between us and the traffic ahead of us would have been insufficient for safe operation. Contributing factors. 1) remained higher than I would have liked with respect to the distance we were from the airport when bay approach cleared us for the approach. 2) we should have been at a slower airspeed so we could have descended faster (we would have been able to put our gear down earlier), we were too high and too fast. 3) other close-in traffic. 4) unfamiliar with the area/local procedures. 5) personally had relatively little time in the aircraft and had only received my multi-engine rating a few weeks before. (The person in the right seat, the CFI whom I had as an instructor for my multi-engine rating, had about 150 hours in the aircraft.)

Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: DURING AN INST RATING TRAINING FLT, SFO CLASS B WAS ENTERED AFTER APCH CTLR HAD CLRED THE FLT FOR A VISUAL APCH AND DSCNT TO PATTERN ALT OF SQL CLASS D AIRSPACE UNDERNEATH CLASS B AIRSPACE.

Narrative: WE WERE ON AN IFR FLT PLAN, CLRED TO LAND AT SAN CARLOS, CA, ARPT (SQL). CTR HAD NOT GIVEN US PERMISSION TO DSND UNTIL QUITE LATE IN THE APCH SEQUENCE. WE WERE CLRED FOR A VISUAL APCH TO RWY 30, AND WE WERE QUITE PRESSED TO LOSE A LOT OF ALT (2800 FT) FROM OUR LAST ASSIGNED ALT (4000 FT) AND THE ALT THE TWR CTLR WANTED US TO BE AT (SOMETHING SIMILAR TO 'CROSS OVER THE ARPT AT OR ABOVE 1200 FT, ENTER R DOWNWIND RWY 30'). COMPLICATING OUR DSCNT, THE TWR CTLR POINTED OUT TFC TO FOLLOW, A CESSNA (172, I BELIEVE), THAT WAS ONLY ABOUT 1 MI AHEAD OF US. WE WERE STILL TOO FAST TO LOWER OUR LNDG GEAR, MAKING IT VERY DIFFICULT TO LOSE THE ALT AND LOSE THE AIRSPD WE NEEDED. AS SUCH, IT IS POSSIBLE WE DIDN'T DSND FAR ENOUGH INTO THE CLASS D AIRSPACE AND MIGHT HAVE CUT AN EDGE OF THE SFO CLASS B (OVER THE WESTERN EDGE OF, AND POSSIBLY ABOVE, SQL'S CLASS D) DURING OUR DSCNT. SQL TWR FOLKS DIDN'T SAY ANYTHING IN THE AIR OR ON THE GND, AND WE WERE SO BUSY KEEPING TRACK OF OUR TFC TO PREVENT US FROM OVERTAKING THEM, OR COMING DOWN ON TOP OF THEM, WE'RE NOT EXACTLY SURE IF WE DID OR DIDN'T MOMENTARILY ENTER CLASS B. IF NOT, OF COURSE, THIS RPT IS MOOT. IF WE DID, IT WAS SIMPLY BECAUSE HAD WE DSNDED ANY MORE RAPIDLY, THE DISTANCE (VERTLY AND LATERALLY) BTWN US AND THE TFC AHEAD OF US WOULD HAVE BEEN INSUFFICIENT FOR SAFE OP. CONTRIBUTING FACTORS. 1) REMAINED HIGHER THAN I WOULD HAVE LIKED WITH RESPECT TO THE DISTANCE WE WERE FROM THE ARPT WHEN BAY APCH CLEARED US FOR THE APCH. 2) WE SHOULD HAVE BEEN AT A SLOWER AIRSPD SO WE COULD HAVE DSNDED FASTER (WE WOULD HAVE BEEN ABLE TO PUT OUR GEAR DOWN EARLIER), WE WERE TOO HIGH AND TOO FAST. 3) OTHER CLOSE-IN TFC. 4) UNFAMILIAR WITH THE AREA/LCL PROCS. 5) PERSONALLY HAD RELATIVELY LITTLE TIME IN THE ACFT AND HAD ONLY RECEIVED MY MULTI-ENG RATING A FEW WKS BEFORE. (THE PERSON IN THE R SEAT, THE CFI WHOM I HAD AS AN INSTRUCTOR FOR MY MULTI-ENG RATING, HAD ABOUT 150 HOURS IN THE ACFT.)

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.

During an instrument rating training flight, sfo class B was entered after approach controller had cleared the flight for a visual approach and descent to pattern altitude of sql class D airspace underneath class B airspace.