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S80 is cleared into position and hold for departure ord runway 32L at intersection T10 with a B747 already in position on runway 32L at approach end. Captain does not proceed onto runway until takeoff clearance is issued.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 550294 |
| Time | |
| Date | 200207 |
| Day | Fri |
| Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | airport : ord.airport |
| State Reference | IL |
| Altitude | agl single value : 0 |
| Environment | |
| Light | Daylight |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | MD-80 Super 80 |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Flight Phase | ground : position and hold ground : taxi |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Aircraft 2 | |
| Controlling Facilities | tower : ord.tower |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | B747 Undifferentiated or Other Model |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Flight Phase | ground : position and hold |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : atp |
| ASRS Report | 550294 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | other anomaly other |
| Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
| Resolutory Action | none taken : unable |
| Supplementary | |
| Problem Areas | ATC Human Performance Airport Flight Crew Human Performance |
| Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
| Situations | |
| ATC Facility | procedure or policy : ord.tower |
Narrative:
Tower cleared us into position and hold on runway 32L at T10. As we approached the runway, I noticed a B747 at the very end of runway 32L in position with nose lights on. We tried to ask tower about the B747 and he clipped our transmission to tell the aircraft behind us to go into position. I delayed slightly my turn to line up with the runway to verify as much as I could and needed that the B747 was staying in position. I do not know how long the B747 was there. He may actually be on a separate tower frequency. I can account for 6 aircraft that tower talked to and he never mentioned the B747 at the end in position. With all the need to be aware of runway problems, I would think that this needs some help. I thought ATC should have said something. Also I ask myself was there a real need that the B747 to be in position on the runway to begin with. I think he was there awhile. Last, if we are on 2 different tower frequencys on runway 32L, I feel this is a potential problem. Callback conversation with reporter revealed the following information: reporter called tower supervisor on return to ord an learned that 2 separate controllers have control authority/authorized to utilize runway 32L, 1 controller for operations north of runway 9R/27L, the other for operations south of runway 9R/27L. The supervisor advised that the controller should have advised aircraft cleared onto runway 32L at T10 of traffic holding on the approach end of the runway.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: S80 IS CLRED INTO POS AND HOLD FOR DEP ORD RWY 32L AT INTXN T10 WITH A B747 ALREADY IN POS ON RWY 32L AT APCH END. CAPT DOES NOT PROCEED ONTO RWY UNTIL TKOF CLRNC IS ISSUED.
Narrative: TWR CLRED US INTO POS AND HOLD ON RWY 32L AT T10. AS WE APCHED THE RWY, I NOTICED A B747 AT THE VERY END OF RWY 32L IN POS WITH NOSE LIGHTS ON. WE TRIED TO ASK TWR ABOUT THE B747 AND HE CLIPPED OUR XMISSION TO TELL THE ACFT BEHIND US TO GO INTO POS. I DELAYED SLIGHTLY MY TURN TO LINE UP WITH THE RWY TO VERIFY AS MUCH AS I COULD AND NEEDED THAT THE B747 WAS STAYING IN POS. I DO NOT KNOW HOW LONG THE B747 WAS THERE. HE MAY ACTUALLY BE ON A SEPARATE TWR FREQ. I CAN ACCOUNT FOR 6 ACFT THAT TWR TALKED TO AND HE NEVER MENTIONED THE B747 AT THE END IN POS. WITH ALL THE NEED TO BE AWARE OF RWY PROBS, I WOULD THINK THAT THIS NEEDS SOME HELP. I THOUGHT ATC SHOULD HAVE SAID SOMETHING. ALSO I ASK MYSELF WAS THERE A REAL NEED THAT THE B747 TO BE IN POS ON THE RWY TO BEGIN WITH. I THINK HE WAS THERE AWHILE. LAST, IF WE ARE ON 2 DIFFERENT TWR FREQS ON RWY 32L, I FEEL THIS IS A POTENTIAL PROB. CALLBACK CONVERSATION WITH RPTR REVEALED THE FOLLOWING INFO: RPTR CALLED TWR SUPVR ON RETURN TO ORD AN LEARNED THAT 2 SEPARATE CTLRS HAVE CTL AUTH TO UTILIZE RWY 32L, 1 CTLR FOR OPS N OF RWY 9R/27L, THE OTHER FOR OPS S OF RWY 9R/27L. THE SUPVR ADVISED THAT THE CTLR SHOULD HAVE ADVISED ACFT CLRED ONTO RWY 32L AT T10 OF TFC HOLDING ON THE APCH END OF THE RWY.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.