37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 551806 |
Time | |
Date | 200206 |
Day | Mon |
Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : lax.airport |
State Reference | CA |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 2100 msl bound upper : 2500 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | IMC |
Light | Night |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : sct.tracon |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | B767-300 and 300 ER |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Navigation In Use | ils localizer only : 24r other |
Flight Phase | descent : approach |
Route In Use | approach : instrument precision arrival : on vectors |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : multi engine pilot : cfi pilot : atp pilot : flight engineer |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 120 flight time total : 15000 flight time type : 4000 |
ASRS Report | 551806 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp pilot : flight engineer pilot : multi engine |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 150 flight time total : 13700 flight time type : 200 |
ASRS Report | 552279 |
Events | |
Anomaly | aircraft equipment problem : less severe altitude deviation : overshoot conflict : airborne less severe non adherence : published procedure |
Independent Detector | other flight crewa other flight crewb |
Resolutory Action | flight crew : overrode automation |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | ATC Human Performance Aircraft Flight Crew Human Performance |
Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Intra Facility Coordination Failure |
Narrative:
We had a flap abnormal situation for landing at lax which effected our landing, distance, and approach speeds. On initial contact with socal approach, we coordination for special handling consisting of: use of runway 25L for longer landing distance, and extra aircraft spacing due to higher approach speeds. ATC acknowledged our request and indicated 'it would not be a problem.' while ATC is vectoring us for the ILS approach, no mention of a change in runway assignment was given. During the final vector for intercept of ILS runway 25L, ATC cleared us for ILS runway 24R 'maintain 2500 ft until established, contact lax tower, good day.' at this point, I immediately requested runway 25L. Approach control denied my request. I now had to reprogram the FMS, talk to tower, and run checklists. The captain (PF) disengaged the autoplt at this time for concern of minimal spacing of traffic on final, for our newly assigned runway. At this point, some altitude was lost. The main cause of this problem was primarily approach controls lack of communicating his intentions for us, while we prepared them well in advanced of our special needs. For a 2 man crew our workload was saturated unnecessarily. Supplemental information from acn 552279: approaching ventura VOR inbound to lax on sadde 6 arrival, advised approach control on initial contact that we had an abnormal flap condition. I configured the aircraft early and briefed the abnormal flap approach (flaps 20 degrees as final flaps instead of flaps 30 degrees). Up to and including the base leg, we believed we'd be going to runway 25L. We were surprised and dismayed when the next ATC instruction was a turn to intercept the final approach course to runway 24R. The copilot immediately queried approach control about runway 25L and was told runway 25L wasn't available. The copilot then asked about runway 24L and was told the same. We executed the approach with abnormal flaps and 1000 ft ceiling and almost had to go around because the commuter aircraft was still on the runway when we were close in. I believe ATC 'dropped the ball.'
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: B767-400 CREW LNDG LAX WITH FLAP PROB REQUIRING FASTER LNDG SPD AND LONGER RWY ARE CHANGED TO SHORTER RWY AT LAST MIN.
Narrative: WE HAD A FLAP ABNORMAL SIT FOR LNDG AT LAX WHICH EFFECTED OUR LNDG, DISTANCE, AND APCH SPDS. ON INITIAL CONTACT WITH SOCAL APCH, WE COORD FOR SPECIAL HANDLING CONSISTING OF: USE OF RWY 25L FOR LONGER LNDG DISTANCE, AND EXTRA ACFT SPACING DUE TO HIGHER APCH SPDS. ATC ACKNOWLEDGED OUR REQUEST AND INDICATED 'IT WOULD NOT BE A PROB.' WHILE ATC IS VECTORING US FOR THE ILS APCH, NO MENTION OF A CHANGE IN RWY ASSIGNMENT WAS GIVEN. DURING THE FINAL VECTOR FOR INTERCEPT OF ILS RWY 25L, ATC CLRED US FOR ILS RWY 24R 'MAINTAIN 2500 FT UNTIL ESTABLISHED, CONTACT LAX TWR, GOOD DAY.' AT THIS POINT, I IMMEDIATELY REQUESTED RWY 25L. APCH CTL DENIED MY REQUEST. I NOW HAD TO REPROGRAM THE FMS, TALK TO TWR, AND RUN CHKLISTS. THE CAPT (PF) DISENGAGED THE AUTOPLT AT THIS TIME FOR CONCERN OF MINIMAL SPACING OF TFC ON FINAL, FOR OUR NEWLY ASSIGNED RWY. AT THIS POINT, SOME ALT WAS LOST. THE MAIN CAUSE OF THIS PROB WAS PRIMARILY APCH CTLS LACK OF COMMUNICATING HIS INTENTIONS FOR US, WHILE WE PREPARED THEM WELL IN ADVANCED OF OUR SPECIAL NEEDS. FOR A 2 MAN CREW OUR WORKLOAD WAS SATURATED UNNECESSARILY. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 552279: APCHING VENTURA VOR INBOUND TO LAX ON SADDE 6 ARR, ADVISED APCH CTL ON INITIAL CONTACT THAT WE HAD AN ABNORMAL FLAP CONDITION. I CONFIGURED THE ACFT EARLY AND BRIEFED THE ABNORMAL FLAP APCH (FLAPS 20 DEGS AS FINAL FLAPS INSTEAD OF FLAPS 30 DEGS). UP TO AND INCLUDING THE BASE LEG, WE BELIEVED WE'D BE GOING TO RWY 25L. WE WERE SURPRISED AND DISMAYED WHEN THE NEXT ATC INSTRUCTION WAS A TURN TO INTERCEPT THE FINAL APCH COURSE TO RWY 24R. THE COPLT IMMEDIATELY QUERIED APCH CTL ABOUT RWY 25L AND WAS TOLD RWY 25L WASN'T AVAILABLE. THE COPLT THEN ASKED ABOUT RWY 24L AND WAS TOLD THE SAME. WE EXECUTED THE APCH WITH ABNORMAL FLAPS AND 1000 FT CEILING AND ALMOST HAD TO GO AROUND BECAUSE THE COMMUTER ACFT WAS STILL ON THE RWY WHEN WE WERE CLOSE IN. I BELIEVE ATC 'DROPPED THE BALL.'
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.