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Inappropriate behavior by ord controller toward an A320 crew for requesting additional 30 seconds wait behind a B757 departure.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 553283 |
| Time | |
| Date | 200207 |
| Day | Mon |
| Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | airport : ord.airport |
| State Reference | IL |
| Altitude | agl single value : 0 |
| Environment | |
| Weather Elements | other |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | A320 |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Flight Phase | climbout : takeoff ground : takeoff roll ground : position and hold |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Aircraft 2 | |
| Controlling Facilities | tower : ord.tower |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | B757 Undifferentiated or Other Model |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Flight Phase | climbout : takeoff climbout : initial ground : takeoff roll |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : atp |
| ASRS Report | 553283 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | inflight encounter : wake turbulence non adherence : required legal separation non adherence : published procedure other anomaly other |
| Independent Detector | other controllera other controllerb other flight crewa other flight crewb |
| Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance none taken : anomaly accepted |
| Consequence | faa : investigated faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
| Supplementary | |
| Problem Areas | ATC Human Performance Flight Crew Human Performance |
| Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
| Air Traffic Incident | other |
Narrative:
I may have departed with a 'position and hold' clearance. I was initially given a takeoff clearance to 'expedite takeoff' one and a half minutes into our requested 2 min wake turbulence separation from a B757. When I asked for 30 more seconds, the controller's voice changed to the instructor and he proceeded to berate me for asking for the spacing. The second controller reclred us to 'position and hold' on runway 22L with a B737 on final to runway 27L. I never heard a second clearance to take off, but the first officer said he did, so I elected to depart, rather than cause a loss of separation with the B737 on final for runway 27L. I spoke to the tower chief and he said there was 2 mins 10 seconds between the time they cleared the B757 for takeoff and our takeoff. However, we started the time hack when the B757 reached takeoff thrust. That was 1 min 30 seconds, not 2 mins. I would like you to request the tower tapes and assess the situation. Would you be willing to address the instructor controller's professionalism if you find it lacking (as I did)? I don't think that controller realizes that it is not distance, but time that diminishes wake turbulence risk.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: INAPPROPRIATE BEHAVIOR BY ORD CTLR TOWARD AN A320 CREW FOR REQUESTING ADDITIONAL 30 SECONDS WAIT BEHIND A B757 DEP.
Narrative: I MAY HAVE DEPARTED WITH A 'POS AND HOLD' CLRNC. I WAS INITIALLY GIVEN A TKOF CLRNC TO 'EXPEDITE TKOF' ONE AND A HALF MINUTES INTO OUR REQUESTED 2 MIN WAKE TURB SEPARATION FROM A B757. WHEN I ASKED FOR 30 MORE SECONDS, THE CTLR'S VOICE CHANGED TO THE INSTRUCTOR AND HE PROCEEDED TO BERATE ME FOR ASKING FOR THE SPACING. THE SECOND CTLR RECLRED US TO 'POS AND HOLD' ON RWY 22L WITH A B737 ON FINAL TO RWY 27L. I NEVER HEARD A SECOND CLRNC TO TAKE OFF, BUT THE FO SAID HE DID, SO I ELECTED TO DEPART, RATHER THAN CAUSE A LOSS OF SEPARATION WITH THE B737 ON FINAL FOR RWY 27L. I SPOKE TO THE TWR CHIEF AND HE SAID THERE WAS 2 MINS 10 SECONDS BTWN THE TIME THEY CLRED THE B757 FOR TKOF AND OUR TKOF. HOWEVER, WE STARTED THE TIME HACK WHEN THE B757 REACHED TKOF THRUST. THAT WAS 1 MIN 30 SECONDS, NOT 2 MINS. I WOULD LIKE YOU TO REQUEST THE TWR TAPES AND ASSESS THE SIT. WOULD YOU BE WILLING TO ADDRESS THE INSTRUCTOR CTLR'S PROFESSIONALISM IF YOU FIND IT LACKING (AS I DID)? I DON'T THINK THAT CTLR REALIZES THAT IT IS NOT DISTANCE, BUT TIME THAT DIMINISHES WAKE TURB RISK.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.