B757 flight crew initiates turn towards lower terrain after L30 issues an altitude below SID MCA.

Attributes
ACN	555274
Time
Date	200202
Day	Sun
Local Time Of Day	0601 To 1200
Place
Locale Reference	intersection : idale
State Reference	NV
Altitude	msl single value : 7000
Environment
Flight Conditions	VMC
Light	Daylight
Aircraft 1
Controlling Facilities	tracon : l30.tracon
Operator	common carrier : air carrier
Make Model Name	B757-200
Operating Under FAR Part	Part 121
Navigation In Use	other
Flight Phase	climbout : initial
Route In Use	departure sid : idale 1
Flight Plan	IFR
Person 1
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : captain oversight : pic
Qualification	pilot : atp
Experience	flight time last 90 days : 150 flight time total : 16700 flight time type : 2100
ASRS Report	555274
Person 2
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : first officer
Events
Anomaly	non adherence : published procedure other spatial deviation
Independent Detector	other flight crewa
Resolutory Action	controller : issued new clearance flight crew : took precautionary avoidance action
Consequence	other
Supplementary
Problem Areas	Environmental Factor Flight Crew Human Performance Airspace Structure ATC Human Performance
Primary Problem	ATC Human Performance
Air Traffic Incident	other
Situations
ATC Facility	procedure or policy : l30.tracon
Chart	sid : idale rnav

Narrative:

ATC clearance was 'idale 1 departure' to 'maintain 7000 ft.' we departed off runway 25R and, using lateral navigation (LNAV) system, climbed to 7000 ft MSL while tracking the SID course. When handed off to las vegas departure, we were acknowledged and told to 'maintain 7000 ft,' but no track deviation or vector off the SID. Idale SID -- with a coaldale transition -- requires a minimum altitude at idale intersection of 9000 ft. Terrain rises steeply between idale intersection and shead intersection. The controller was not audibly communicating with any traffic converging with our track, but continued to withhold further climb, or turn us away from the rising terrain ahead. As we reached idale intersection at 7000 ft, he cleared us to climb to 10000 ft MSL. I disengaged LNAV, turned the airplane 20 degrees left, and climbed to 10000 ft over less steep terrain. We had actually been 'controled' over idale intersection at 7000 ft -- fully 2000 ft below the published minimum altitude. Conditions were 'severe clear' and smooth. We were handed off to ZLA with no indication of why the delayed climb from las vegas departure control (ie, no 'thanks for the help' or any indication of abnormal circumstances). In IMC, this could have been a 'CFIT.' many new sids and stars recently established at las. Could the controllers not be proficient? Callback conversation with reporter revealed the following information: pilot reviewed event with chief pilot. ATC response was not known. Reporter concerned that ATC did not validate with the flight crew in a timely manner that the idale crossing restr was canceled and what ATC was planning. Not knowing, they took their own action to fly towards lower terrain until the traffic event concern was resolved with ATC. The report recognizes that las airport has made significant arrival/departure routing changes and 'things still need to be worked out.' reporter believes that changing the arrs and departures to cross over the same general point in space was not a benefit to the user, but added to cockpit and airport complexity.

Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: B757 FLC INITIATES TURN TOWARDS LOWER TERRAIN AFTER L30 ISSUES AN ALT BELOW SID MCA.

Narrative: ATC CLRNC WAS 'IDALE 1 DEP' TO 'MAINTAIN 7000 FT.' WE DEPARTED OFF RWY 25R AND, USING LATERAL NAV (LNAV) SYS, CLBED TO 7000 FT MSL WHILE TRACKING THE SID COURSE. WHEN HANDED OFF TO LAS VEGAS DEP, WE WERE ACKNOWLEDGED AND TOLD TO 'MAINTAIN 7000 FT,' BUT NO TRACK DEV OR VECTOR OFF THE SID. IDALE SID -- WITH A COALDALE TRANSITION -- REQUIRES A MINIMUM ALT AT IDALE INTXN OF 9000 FT. TERRAIN RISES STEEPLY BTWN IDALE INTXN AND SHEAD INTXN. THE CTLR WAS NOT AUDIBLY COMMUNICATING WITH ANY TFC CONVERGING WITH OUR TRACK, BUT CONTINUED TO WITHHOLD FURTHER CLB, OR TURN US AWAY FROM THE RISING TERRAIN AHEAD. AS WE REACHED IDALE INTXN AT 7000 FT, HE CLRED US TO CLB TO 10000 FT MSL. I DISENGAGED LNAV, TURNED THE AIRPLANE 20 DEGS L, AND CLBED TO 10000 FT OVER LESS STEEP TERRAIN. WE HAD ACTUALLY BEEN 'CTLED' OVER IDALE INTXN AT 7000 FT -- FULLY 2000 FT BELOW THE PUBLISHED MINIMUM ALT. CONDITIONS WERE 'SEVERE CLR' AND SMOOTH. WE WERE HANDED OFF TO ZLA WITH NO INDICATION OF WHY THE DELAYED CLB FROM LAS VEGAS DEP CTL (IE, NO 'THANKS FOR THE HELP' OR ANY INDICATION OF ABNORMAL CIRCUMSTANCES). IN IMC, THIS COULD HAVE BEEN A 'CFIT.' MANY NEW SIDS AND STARS RECENTLY ESTABLISHED AT LAS. COULD THE CTLRS NOT BE PROFICIENT? CALLBACK CONVERSATION WITH RPTR REVEALED THE FOLLOWING INFO: PLT REVIEWED EVENT WITH CHIEF PLT. ATC RESPONSE WAS NOT KNOWN. RPTR CONCERNED THAT ATC DID NOT VALIDATE WITH THE FLC IN A TIMELY MANNER THAT THE IDALE XING RESTR WAS CANCELED AND WHAT ATC WAS PLANNING. NOT KNOWING, THEY TOOK THEIR OWN ACTION TO FLY TOWARDS LOWER TERRAIN UNTIL THE TFC EVENT CONCERN WAS RESOLVED WITH ATC. THE RPT RECOGNIZES THAT LAS ARPT HAS MADE SIGNIFICANT ARR/DEP ROUTING CHANGES AND 'THINGS STILL NEED TO BE WORKED OUT.' RPTR BELIEVES THAT CHANGING THE ARRS AND DEPS TO CROSS OVER THE SAME GENERAL POINT IN SPACE WAS NOT A BENEFIT TO THE USER, BUT ADDED TO COCKPIT AND ARPT COMPLEXITY.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.