37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 558108 |
Time | |
Date | 200208 |
Day | Wed |
Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : lax.airport |
State Reference | CA |
Altitude | msl single value : 1500 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | IMC |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : sct.tracon tower : lax.tower |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | B757 Undifferentiated or Other Model |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Navigation In Use | ils localizer & glide slope : 25l |
Route In Use | approach : instrument precision arrival star : civet 4 |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : commercial pilot : instrument pilot : multi engine |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 150 flight time total : 5000 flight time type : 1893 |
ASRS Report | 558108 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Events | |
Anomaly | inflight encounter : weather non adherence : published procedure other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | aircraft equipment other aircraft equipment : ils receiver other flight crewa other flight crewb |
Resolutory Action | none taken : insufficient time none taken : anomaly accepted |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | Weather ATC Human Performance ATC Facility Airport |
Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Situations | |
ATC Facility | procedure or policy : lax.tower |
Airport | procedure or policy : lax.airport |
Narrative:
Improper ATC handling. Late night arrival into lax, very little traffic and late handoff from lax center to socal approach. Events began 10 outside civet at FL190. We were told to descend via the civet 4. ATIS was over 1 and 1/2 hours old. Old ATIS stated clear conditions and 9 miles visibility. Looking out the window, it was obviously low overcast. Shortly cleared for the ILS runway 25 left approach. About 3 miles outside FAF, (limma) while running the final descent checklist, approach cleared us for the visual runway 25 right. I stated, 'unable... Your ATIS is incorrect, we have an overcast layer and need the ILS.' after a short pause, socal cleared us for the ILS runway 25 left, side-step runway 25 right. About 3 seconds after that clearance, we lost all ILS guidance (wandering needles, lines through G/south and localizer, autoplt warnings, etc). We quickly realized that the ILS runway 25 left had been turned off! Captain uncoupled and hand flew while I tuned and identified runway 25 right. Since we were configured and stabilized by the FAF, we continued the approach. After landing, I sternly queried ATC about this event. I am well aware that socal and lax switch runways and stars often, but switching runways, turning off the ILS that is in use with an aircraft at 1500 ft near the FAF in IMC is extremely dangerous! Callback conversation with reporter revealed the following information: the reporter noted that runway 25L had a large lighted 'X' with men and equipment on the runway indicating closure when they landed. This was not reported on the ATIS or any previously received NOTAM and he's concerned why nothing was said by either the tower or approach. Reporter also indicated that they broke out of the overcast at approximately 700 to 800 ft.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: AN OLD ATIS, CLRNC TO A CLOSED RWY, A LAST MIN APCH CHANGE, A LATE NIGHT ARR, AND DETERIORATING WX AT KLAX RESULT IN A HEAVY CREW WORKLOAD.
Narrative: IMPROPER ATC HANDLING. LATE NIGHT ARR INTO LAX, VERY LITTLE TFC AND LATE HANDOFF FROM LAX CENTER TO SOCAL APCH. EVENTS BEGAN 10 OUTSIDE CIVET AT FL190. WE WERE TOLD TO DSND VIA THE CIVET 4. ATIS WAS OVER 1 AND 1/2 HRS OLD. OLD ATIS STATED CLR CONDITIONS AND 9 MILES VIS. LOOKING OUT THE WINDOW, IT WAS OBVIOUSLY LOW OVERCAST. SHORTLY CLEARED FOR THE ILS RWY 25 L APCH. ABOUT 3 MILES OUTSIDE FAF, (LIMMA) WHILE RUNNING THE FINAL DSCNT CHKLIST, APCH CLRED US FOR THE VISUAL RWY 25 RIGHT. I STATED, 'UNABLE... YOUR ATIS IS INCORRECT, WE HAVE AN OVERCAST LAYER AND NEED THE ILS.' AFTER A SHORT PAUSE, SOCAL CLRED US FOR THE ILS RWY 25 LEFT, SIDE-STEP RWY 25 RIGHT. ABOUT 3 SECONDS AFTER THAT CLRNC, WE LOST ALL ILS GUIDANCE (WANDERING NEEDLES, LINES THROUGH G/S AND LOC, AUTOPLT WARNINGS, ETC). WE QUICKLY REALIZED THAT THE ILS RWY 25 LEFT HAD BEEN TURNED OFF! CAPT UNCOUPLED AND HAND FLEW WHILE I TUNED AND IDENTIFIED RWY 25 RIGHT. SINCE WE WERE CONFIGURED AND STABILIZED BY THE FAF, WE CONTINUED THE APCH. AFTER LNDG, I STERNLY QUERIED ATC ABOUT THIS EVENT. I AM WELL AWARE THAT SOCAL AND LAX SWITCH RWYS AND STARS OFTEN, BUT SWITCHING RWYS, TURNING OFF THE ILS THAT IS IN USE WITH AN ACFT AT 1500 FT NEAR THE FAF IN IMC IS EXTREMELY DANGEROUS! CALLBACK CONVERSATION WITH RPTR REVEALED THE FOLLOWING INFO: THE RPTR NOTED THAT RWY 25L HAD A LARGE LIGHTED 'X' WITH MEN AND EQUIPMENT ON THE RWY INDICATING CLOSURE WHEN THEY LANDED. THIS WAS NOT RPTED ON THE ATIS OR ANY PREVIOUSLY RECEIVED NOTAM AND HE'S CONCERNED WHY NOTHING WAS SAID BY EITHER THE TWR OR APCH. RPTR ALSO INDICATED THAT THEY BROKE OUT OF THE OVERCAST AT APPROX 700 TO 800 FT.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.