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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 563746 |
Time | |
Date | 200210 |
Day | Thu |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | intersection : idale |
State Reference | NV |
Altitude | msl bound upper : 7000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | artcc : zla.artcc tracon : l30.tracon tower : las.tower |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | B737-700 |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Navigation In Use | other |
Flight Phase | climbout : intermediate altitude |
Route In Use | departure sid : idale one |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 240 flight time total : 7000 flight time type : 5000 |
ASRS Report | 563746 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : commercial |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 210 flight time total : 4200 flight time type : 1200 |
ASRS Report | 563745 |
Events | |
Anomaly | non adherence : clearance non adherence : published procedure other spatial deviation |
Independent Detector | other controllerb other flight crewa other flight crewb |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance |
Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew other |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | ATC Human Performance Flight Crew Human Performance |
Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Narrative:
I expected to get a heading from tower when cleared for takeoff on runway 19L at las. I selected LNAV at about 400-500 ft since we were 'cleared as filed' (idale RNAV 1 departure) and tower had still not given us a heading. Tower then told us to fly heading 200 degrees and contact departure. Departure immediately cleared us direct to idale. I selected LNAV and direct to idale. I think either we were too close to idale or the computer was 'thinking' but it slowly began to turn back to idale. The aircraft was turning left but seemed to be delaying, so I disconnected the LNAV and increased the angle of bank towards idale. Departure asked if we were turning to idale because it looked like we were going to mis the fix to the west. I told them we were increasing the angle of bank toward idale so they gave us a heading to fly. We eventually resumed the departure. I called departure on the phone when we arrived in rno. He said there was 'no problem' but was curious why the confusion. I told him that our first instructions were when tower switched us to departure. Going from LNAV, heading select, LNAV during climb out, the aircraft took a while to begin the turn. I told him I was not exactly sure what happened, but it would help us out if we could just get a heading to fly when cleared for takeoff and not clear us to a point when we are within a few mi of the fix. We flew the departure 2 more times on this pairing. The tower controller gave us a heading when cleared for takeoff on the first time. On the second, I again had to ask for instructions (ie, runway heading). He then said 'expect a turn around 2 mi.' if I'm cleared as filed and no further instructions, I assume I have to fly the RNAV departure unless tower gives a heading to fly. The controller I spoke with on the phone said tower should be giving us instructions. The fix would be for tower to say 'cleared for takeoff, fly heading XXX.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: A COURSE DEV ON THE IDALE RNAV 1 DEP FROM LAS, NV.
Narrative: I EXPECTED TO GET A HDG FROM TWR WHEN CLRED FOR TKOF ON RWY 19L AT LAS. I SELECTED LNAV AT ABOUT 400-500 FT SINCE WE WERE 'CLRED AS FILED' (IDALE RNAV 1 DEP) AND TWR HAD STILL NOT GIVEN US A HDG. TWR THEN TOLD US TO FLY HDG 200 DEGS AND CONTACT DEP. DEP IMMEDIATELY CLRED US DIRECT TO IDALE. I SELECTED LNAV AND DIRECT TO IDALE. I THINK EITHER WE WERE TOO CLOSE TO IDALE OR THE COMPUTER WAS 'THINKING' BUT IT SLOWLY BEGAN TO TURN BACK TO IDALE. THE ACFT WAS TURNING L BUT SEEMED TO BE DELAYING, SO I DISCONNECTED THE LNAV AND INCREASED THE ANGLE OF BANK TOWARDS IDALE. DEP ASKED IF WE WERE TURNING TO IDALE BECAUSE IT LOOKED LIKE WE WERE GOING TO MIS THE FIX TO THE W. I TOLD THEM WE WERE INCREASING THE ANGLE OF BANK TOWARD IDALE SO THEY GAVE US A HDG TO FLY. WE EVENTUALLY RESUMED THE DEP. I CALLED DEP ON THE PHONE WHEN WE ARRIVED IN RNO. HE SAID THERE WAS 'NO PROB' BUT WAS CURIOUS WHY THE CONFUSION. I TOLD HIM THAT OUR FIRST INSTRUCTIONS WERE WHEN TWR SWITCHED US TO DEP. GOING FROM LNAV, HDG SELECT, LNAV DURING CLBOUT, THE ACFT TOOK A WHILE TO BEGIN THE TURN. I TOLD HIM I WAS NOT EXACTLY SURE WHAT HAPPENED, BUT IT WOULD HELP US OUT IF WE COULD JUST GET A HDG TO FLY WHEN CLRED FOR TKOF AND NOT CLR US TO A POINT WHEN WE ARE WITHIN A FEW MI OF THE FIX. WE FLEW THE DEP 2 MORE TIMES ON THIS PAIRING. THE TWR CTLR GAVE US A HDG WHEN CLRED FOR TKOF ON THE FIRST TIME. ON THE SECOND, I AGAIN HAD TO ASK FOR INSTRUCTIONS (IE, RWY HDG). HE THEN SAID 'EXPECT A TURN AROUND 2 MI.' IF I'M CLRED AS FILED AND NO FURTHER INSTRUCTIONS, I ASSUME I HAVE TO FLY THE RNAV DEP UNLESS TWR GIVES A HDG TO FLY. THE CTLR I SPOKE WITH ON THE PHONE SAID TWR SHOULD BE GIVING US INSTRUCTIONS. THE FIX WOULD BE FOR TWR TO SAY 'CLRED FOR TKOF, FLY HDG XXX.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.