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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 568819 |
Time | |
Date | 200212 |
Day | Tue |
Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | intersection : morry |
State Reference | TX |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 3000 msl bound upper : 4000 |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : d10.tracon tower : cle.tower |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | MD-80 Super 80 |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Navigation In Use | ils other localizer |
Flight Phase | descent : approach |
Route In Use | approach : instrument precision |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
ASRS Report | 568819 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : multi engine pilot : instrument pilot : commercial |
ASRS Report | 568818 |
Events | |
Anomaly | inflight encounter : weather inflight encounter other non adherence other |
Independent Detector | atc equipment other atc equipment : radar other controllera other controllerb other flight crewa other flight crewb |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance none taken : detected after the fact other |
Consequence | faa : investigated other |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | ATC Human Performance Weather Flight Crew Human Performance |
Primary Problem | Ambiguous |
Narrative:
We were given, from what I remember, instructions to intercept the runway 13R localizer and maintain our speed until morry and then slow down to 170 KTS until the OM. We were at 170 KTS over morry when ATC gave us instructions to turn right to a heading of 280 degrees. We did not know why, nor did we ask why. We were then given another heading change to a heading of about north, then followed by a heading of 150 degrees. We did a standard rate turn of 25 degrees, but because the winds were 210 degrees at 53 KTS, that heading did not quite put us on an intercept course with the localizer. The controller made some kind of remark to the effect that he did not know what we were doing. We knew what we were doing, but we did not know why ATC was having us do it. We put 2 + 2 together and were able to figure out that the aircraft behind us was gaining on us. Tower gave us a phone number and asked that I call the tower upon landing. I was told that I should not slow down unless I was told to do so, and if I needed to slow down, I needed to tell them first. I do not know what all the fuss is about -- we did what we were told, ATC did what he needed to do. At no time did we come close to another aircraft, and we landed safely. Seems to me that everything worked out just like it was supposed to. Supplemental information from acn 568818: per clearance from initial approach controller, descending to 5000 ft, established on runway 13R localizer. A 20 degree right wind correction angle was required to track the localizer. Assigned and switched to final approach controller. Contacted final approach controller for dfw runway 13R. Approach clearance issued and read back was, 'cleared ILS runway 13R, maintain 4000 ft to morry, speed 250 KTS to morry, 170 KTS to the marker.' approach was flown per clearance until inside morry. Speed assignment then amended to 190 KTS. Increased speed to 190 KTS. Shortly thereafter, controller assigned a right turn heading 280 degrees, maintain 4000 ft, speed 190 KTS. Clearance accepted and flown as cleared. Vectored back to final approach heading at which time aircraft was east of localizer, heading 130 degrees assigned. Controller inquired if airport was in sight. Reply was in the affirmative and a visual approach was assigned, heading 150 degrees to intercept the localizer, maintain 190 KTS. The visual approach was flown as directed, although upon localizer capture, a further right turn of 10 degrees was necessary to establish and track the localizer. About the marker, approach controller advised tower would issue a phone number for approach control, resume normal speed and contact tower. Note: once vectored around and assigned the 130 degree heading, final approach controller stated to another aircraft 'things aren't working out too well.' final approach controller seemed unaware of the wind conditions on final.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: MD80 CREW ON APCH TO DFW RWY 13R REQUIRED 160 DEG HDG TO STAY ON LOC DUE TO STRONG XWIND MAY HAVE CONFUSED FINAL CTLR.
Narrative: WE WERE GIVEN, FROM WHAT I REMEMBER, INSTRUCTIONS TO INTERCEPT THE RWY 13R LOC AND MAINTAIN OUR SPD UNTIL MORRY AND THEN SLOW DOWN TO 170 KTS UNTIL THE OM. WE WERE AT 170 KTS OVER MORRY WHEN ATC GAVE US INSTRUCTIONS TO TURN R TO A HDG OF 280 DEGS. WE DID NOT KNOW WHY, NOR DID WE ASK WHY. WE WERE THEN GIVEN ANOTHER HDG CHANGE TO A HDG OF ABOUT N, THEN FOLLOWED BY A HDG OF 150 DEGS. WE DID A STANDARD RATE TURN OF 25 DEGS, BUT BECAUSE THE WINDS WERE 210 DEGS AT 53 KTS, THAT HDG DID NOT QUITE PUT US ON AN INTERCEPT COURSE WITH THE LOC. THE CTLR MADE SOME KIND OF REMARK TO THE EFFECT THAT HE DID NOT KNOW WHAT WE WERE DOING. WE KNEW WHAT WE WERE DOING, BUT WE DID NOT KNOW WHY ATC WAS HAVING US DO IT. WE PUT 2 + 2 TOGETHER AND WERE ABLE TO FIGURE OUT THAT THE ACFT BEHIND US WAS GAINING ON US. TWR GAVE US A PHONE NUMBER AND ASKED THAT I CALL THE TWR UPON LNDG. I WAS TOLD THAT I SHOULD NOT SLOW DOWN UNLESS I WAS TOLD TO DO SO, AND IF I NEEDED TO SLOW DOWN, I NEEDED TO TELL THEM FIRST. I DO NOT KNOW WHAT ALL THE FUSS IS ABOUT -- WE DID WHAT WE WERE TOLD, ATC DID WHAT HE NEEDED TO DO. AT NO TIME DID WE COME CLOSE TO ANOTHER ACFT, AND WE LANDED SAFELY. SEEMS TO ME THAT EVERYTHING WORKED OUT JUST LIKE IT WAS SUPPOSED TO. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 568818: PER CLRNC FROM INITIAL APCH CTLR, DSNDING TO 5000 FT, ESTABLISHED ON RWY 13R LOC. A 20 DEG R WIND CORRECTION ANGLE WAS REQUIRED TO TRACK THE LOC. ASSIGNED AND SWITCHED TO FINAL APCH CTLR. CONTACTED FINAL APCH CTLR FOR DFW RWY 13R. APCH CLRNC ISSUED AND READ BACK WAS, 'CLRED ILS RWY 13R, MAINTAIN 4000 FT TO MORRY, SPD 250 KTS TO MORRY, 170 KTS TO THE MARKER.' APCH WAS FLOWN PER CLRNC UNTIL INSIDE MORRY. SPD ASSIGNMENT THEN AMENDED TO 190 KTS. INCREASED SPD TO 190 KTS. SHORTLY THEREAFTER, CTLR ASSIGNED A R TURN HDG 280 DEGS, MAINTAIN 4000 FT, SPD 190 KTS. CLRNC ACCEPTED AND FLOWN AS CLRED. VECTORED BACK TO FINAL APCH HDG AT WHICH TIME ACFT WAS E OF LOC, HDG 130 DEGS ASSIGNED. CTLR INQUIRED IF ARPT WAS IN SIGHT. REPLY WAS IN THE AFFIRMATIVE AND A VISUAL APCH WAS ASSIGNED, HDG 150 DEGS TO INTERCEPT THE LOC, MAINTAIN 190 KTS. THE VISUAL APCH WAS FLOWN AS DIRECTED, ALTHOUGH UPON LOC CAPTURE, A FURTHER R TURN OF 10 DEGS WAS NECESSARY TO ESTABLISH AND TRACK THE LOC. ABOUT THE MARKER, APCH CTLR ADVISED TWR WOULD ISSUE A PHONE NUMBER FOR APCH CTL, RESUME NORMAL SPD AND CONTACT TWR. NOTE: ONCE VECTORED AROUND AND ASSIGNED THE 130 DEG HDG, FINAL APCH CTLR STATED TO ANOTHER ACFT 'THINGS AREN'T WORKING OUT TOO WELL.' FINAL APCH CTLR SEEMED UNAWARE OF THE WIND CONDITIONS ON FINAL.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.