37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 571897 |
Time | |
Date | 200301 |
Day | Mon |
Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : hou.airport |
State Reference | TX |
Altitude | msl single value : 6000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : i90.tracon |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | B737-800 |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Navigation In Use | ils localizer & glide slope : 121 other |
Flight Phase | descent : approach |
Route In Use | approach : instrument precision |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 220 flight time total : 27000 flight time type : 20000 |
ASRS Report | 571897 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Events | |
Anomaly | non adherence : published procedure |
Independent Detector | atc equipment other atc equipment : radar other controllera other flight crewa other flight crewb |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance none taken : anomaly accepted |
Consequence | Other |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | ATC Human Performance |
Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Narrative:
Approaching hou, we received clearance 'direct marit and cross 10000 ft' from hou ARTCC. Upon handoff to hou approach, we received clearance to 'join runway 12R localizer and proceed inbound.' after marit intersection, while tracking runway 12R localizer, we received instructions to descend to 6000 ft. After handoff to another approach control frequency, we were told to expect lower. When approximately 22 NM DME, we were given a clearance 'cleared for ILS runway 12R.' checking the plan view of the approach, I determined descent could not begin until jabbs intersection, which is barely 13 NM from the runway end. I instructed the first officer to 'ask for lower.' he did, and the controller replied 'I told you were cleared for the approach,' implying that was all he needed to say, and we could descend. We were not on a published route, and I knew we could not descend until we were. Words were exchanged, but we were finally issued descent clearance and then approach clearance. Several mi were traveled during this exchange of words, and it was necessary to slow the aircraft, configure and make a dive down to the GS. All of this occurred in VMC conditions with a stable approach achieved prior to 1000 ft altitude. Had this been actual IMC conditions, this could have been unsafe. As a practical matter, there was no terrain clearance problem, but I could not 'legally' begin descent until jabbs intersection. The unnecessary confusion could have been avoided if the controller had followed standard procedure and not taken our request for lower as a challenge of his knowledge.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: INBOUND TO HOU, A B737-700 CREW JOINED THE LOC AT 6000 FT AND AT APPROX 22 MI OUT ARE, 'CLRED FOR APCH,' WITHOUT A LOWER ALT ISSUED.
Narrative: APCHING HOU, WE RECEIVED CLRNC 'DIRECT MARIT AND CROSS 10000 FT' FROM HOU ARTCC. UPON HDOF TO HOU APCH, WE RECEIVED CLRNC TO 'JOIN RWY 12R LOC AND PROCEED INBOUND.' AFTER MARIT INTXN, WHILE TRACKING RWY 12R LOC, WE RECEIVED INSTRUCTIONS TO DSND TO 6000 FT. AFTER HDOF TO ANOTHER APCH CTL FREQ, WE WERE TOLD TO EXPECT LOWER. WHEN APPROX 22 NM DME, WE WERE GIVEN A CLRNC 'CLRED FOR ILS RWY 12R.' CHKING THE PLAN VIEW OF THE APCH, I DETERMINED DSCNT COULD NOT BEGIN UNTIL JABBS INTXN, WHICH IS BARELY 13 NM FROM THE RWY END. I INSTRUCTED THE FO TO 'ASK FOR LOWER.' HE DID, AND THE CTLR REPLIED 'I TOLD YOU WERE CLRED FOR THE APCH,' IMPLYING THAT WAS ALL HE NEEDED TO SAY, AND WE COULD DSND. WE WERE NOT ON A PUBLISHED RTE, AND I KNEW WE COULD NOT DSND UNTIL WE WERE. WORDS WERE EXCHANGED, BUT WE WERE FINALLY ISSUED DSCNT CLRNC AND THEN APCH CLRNC. SEVERAL MI WERE TRAVELED DURING THIS EXCHANGE OF WORDS, AND IT WAS NECESSARY TO SLOW THE ACFT, CONFIGURE AND MAKE A DIVE DOWN TO THE GS. ALL OF THIS OCCURRED IN VMC CONDITIONS WITH A STABLE APCH ACHIEVED PRIOR TO 1000 FT ALT. HAD THIS BEEN ACTUAL IMC CONDITIONS, THIS COULD HAVE BEEN UNSAFE. AS A PRACTICAL MATTER, THERE WAS NO TERRAIN CLRNC PROB, BUT I COULD NOT 'LEGALLY' BEGIN DSCNT UNTIL JABBS INTXN. THE UNNECESSARY CONFUSION COULD HAVE BEEN AVOIDED IF THE CTLR HAD FOLLOWED STANDARD PROC AND NOT TAKEN OUR REQUEST FOR LOWER AS A CHALLENGE OF HIS KNOWLEDGE.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.