37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 571922 |
Time | |
Date | 200301 |
Day | Thu |
Place | |
Locale Reference | atc facility : alb.tracon |
State Reference | NY |
Altitude | msl single value : 10000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | Mixed |
Light | Night |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : alb.tracon tower : las.tower |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | B737-700 |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Navigation In Use | other |
Flight Phase | descent : approach |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 240 flight time total : 7500 flight time type : 2500 |
ASRS Report | 571922 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Events | |
Anomaly | inflight encounter : weather inflight encounter other non adherence : far non adherence : company policies non adherence : published procedure other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | aircraft equipment other aircraft equipment : windshield wiper post ice accumulation |
Resolutory Action | none taken : anomaly accepted |
Consequence | other |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | Flight Crew Human Performance Weather Company |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Narrative:
Icing. Descending into alb out of approximately 12000 ft, captain turned on engine anti-ice prior to descending into clouds. Shortly thereafter, I noticed rime ice building up on the windshield and wiper bolt. I advised the captain. He acknowledged, but did not elect to turn on wing heat. I turned on wing inspection light to look for ice. I could not determine visually. I asked the captain if he could see any ice? He said that he could not tell. In my mind, I am thinking, if I was the PF, I would turn on the wing heat. There is ice buildup on the windshield, but we can't see anything on the wing. Descending below approximately 5000 ft, we were below clouds. Landed uneventfully. On postflt, I found light rime ice buildup on the wing and tail leading edges just as I had suspected. I should have acted on that little voice inside and suggested more strongly to turn on the wing heat. Our procedure for wing heat is listed in fom. Primary procedure is to use wing heat as a deice procedure. The problem is, that this is based on being able to see from the cockpit if there is ice on the wing. In my previous experience on boeing aircraft, our procedure was to turn wing heat on, if there was ice accumulation on the windshield. The action was automatic, if ice was accumulating on windshield. Most pilots that I fly with are reluctant to turn wing heat on unless there are large visible chunks of ice on the wing. There have been numerous times that I have been the PNF, and the same scenario with ice on the windshield, but the captain looks and decides not to turn on wing heat. Based on this event, I suggest that maybe there could be improvement in our procedure. We were in compliance with the 'primary method' of wing anti-ice usage suggested in our fom. If it may be required, then the only way we can determine if it is required is to look. We looked, and we didn't see anything. The secondary method of using wing heat as anti-ice would have covered us in this situation, but the captain elected not to do that procedure. In my experience, this procedure is rarely followed. I would like to see our procedure changed so that if there is ice buildup on the windshield, etc, then we automatically turn on the wing heat. In the future, I will also more strongly suggest that the wing heat be turned on.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: B737-700 CAPT REFUSED TO TURN ON WING ANTI ICE IN ICING CONDITIONS.
Narrative: ICING. DSNDING INTO ALB OUT OF APPROX 12000 FT, CAPT TURNED ON ENG ANTI-ICE PRIOR TO DSNDING INTO CLOUDS. SHORTLY THEREAFTER, I NOTICED RIME ICE BUILDING UP ON THE WINDSHIELD AND WIPER BOLT. I ADVISED THE CAPT. HE ACKNOWLEDGED, BUT DID NOT ELECT TO TURN ON WING HEAT. I TURNED ON WING INSPECTION LIGHT TO LOOK FOR ICE. I COULD NOT DETERMINE VISUALLY. I ASKED THE CAPT IF HE COULD SEE ANY ICE? HE SAID THAT HE COULD NOT TELL. IN MY MIND, I AM THINKING, IF I WAS THE PF, I WOULD TURN ON THE WING HEAT. THERE IS ICE BUILDUP ON THE WINDSHIELD, BUT WE CAN'T SEE ANYTHING ON THE WING. DSNDING BELOW APPROX 5000 FT, WE WERE BELOW CLOUDS. LANDED UNEVENTFULLY. ON POSTFLT, I FOUND LIGHT RIME ICE BUILDUP ON THE WING AND TAIL LEADING EDGES JUST AS I HAD SUSPECTED. I SHOULD HAVE ACTED ON THAT LITTLE VOICE INSIDE AND SUGGESTED MORE STRONGLY TO TURN ON THE WING HEAT. OUR PROC FOR WING HEAT IS LISTED IN FOM. PRIMARY PROC IS TO USE WING HEAT AS A DEICE PROC. THE PROB IS, THAT THIS IS BASED ON BEING ABLE TO SEE FROM THE COCKPIT IF THERE IS ICE ON THE WING. IN MY PREVIOUS EXPERIENCE ON BOEING ACFT, OUR PROC WAS TO TURN WING HEAT ON, IF THERE WAS ICE ACCUMULATION ON THE WINDSHIELD. THE ACTION WAS AUTOMATIC, IF ICE WAS ACCUMULATING ON WINDSHIELD. MOST PLTS THAT I FLY WITH ARE RELUCTANT TO TURN WING HEAT ON UNLESS THERE ARE LARGE VISIBLE CHUNKS OF ICE ON THE WING. THERE HAVE BEEN NUMEROUS TIMES THAT I HAVE BEEN THE PNF, AND THE SAME SCENARIO WITH ICE ON THE WINDSHIELD, BUT THE CAPT LOOKS AND DECIDES NOT TO TURN ON WING HEAT. BASED ON THIS EVENT, I SUGGEST THAT MAYBE THERE COULD BE IMPROVEMENT IN OUR PROC. WE WERE IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE 'PRIMARY METHOD' OF WING ANTI-ICE USAGE SUGGESTED IN OUR FOM. IF IT MAY BE REQUIRED, THEN THE ONLY WAY WE CAN DETERMINE IF IT IS REQUIRED IS TO LOOK. WE LOOKED, AND WE DIDN'T SEE ANYTHING. THE SECONDARY METHOD OF USING WING HEAT AS ANTI-ICE WOULD HAVE COVERED US IN THIS SIT, BUT THE CAPT ELECTED NOT TO DO THAT PROC. IN MY EXPERIENCE, THIS PROC IS RARELY FOLLOWED. I WOULD LIKE TO SEE OUR PROC CHANGED SO THAT IF THERE IS ICE BUILDUP ON THE WINDSHIELD, ETC, THEN WE AUTOMATICALLY TURN ON THE WING HEAT. IN THE FUTURE, I WILL ALSO MORE STRONGLY SUGGEST THAT THE WING HEAT BE TURNED ON.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.