37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 574431 |
Time | |
Date | 200302 |
Day | Sun |
Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : las.airport |
State Reference | NV |
Altitude | msl single value : 7000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Dusk |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : l30.tracon |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | B757-200 |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Navigation In Use | other |
Flight Phase | climbout : intermediate altitude |
Route In Use | departure : on vectors departure sid : las |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : commercial pilot : flight engineer pilot : instrument pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 170 flight time total : 12080 |
ASRS Report | 574431 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Events | |
Anomaly | non adherence : published procedure non adherence : clearance other spatial deviation |
Independent Detector | other controllera |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance flight crew : returned to intended or assigned course |
Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | Flight Crew Human Performance ATC Human Performance Chart Or Publication Company |
Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Narrative:
I was the captain departing las for pit. Our pre departure clearance reads '...las LAS1 dvc J146....' often, we receive the AACES2 departure which we cannot accept due to our B757-200's not being certified to fly RNAV departures. On this specific flight, we received the LAS1 via pre departure clearance's, which is a non-RNAV departure and did not require a call to clearance delivery for an alternate departure. Sometime after we switched to departure, we were queried if we were flying runway heading. We responded we were, and were told to fly directly to aaces and then queried why we didn't follow the aaces departure. We told them we were given the LAS1 departure. The next query (a pilot's nightmare) was to call 'us' at the end of the flight. During that conversation, the controller told me she expected us to make the AACES2 turn after takeoff because we were given the aaces 2 departure and not the LAS1. When she said her data block indicated our pre departure clearance read AACES2, I said that was not the departure we were given and I could provide her with a hard coy of our pre departure clearance. Clearly, there is a problem with communications/understanding somewhere in the system. It may be her assumption that all RNAV equipped airplanes are certified for RNAV departures caused her to assume we were on the AACES2, or maybe since the first fix of the LAS1 is aaces, she thought we should fly the AACES2 profile? She made the comment she had a similar problem and had just spoken with another pilot. We simply followed our clearance's SID instructions for our assigned runway. If possible, I would like to know the follow-up to your investigation.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: LAS B757 DEP DISCREPANCY BTWN PDC'S AND ATC DISPLAYED CLRNC.
Narrative: I WAS THE CAPT DEPARTING LAS FOR PIT. OUR PDC READS '...LAS LAS1 DVC J146....' OFTEN, WE RECEIVE THE AACES2 DEP WHICH WE CANNOT ACCEPT DUE TO OUR B757-200'S NOT BEING CERTIFIED TO FLY RNAV DEPS. ON THIS SPECIFIC FLT, WE RECEIVED THE LAS1 VIA PDC'S, WHICH IS A NON-RNAV DEP AND DID NOT REQUIRE A CALL TO CLRNC DELIVERY FOR AN ALTERNATE DEP. SOMETIME AFTER WE SWITCHED TO DEP, WE WERE QUERIED IF WE WERE FLYING RWY HDG. WE RESPONDED WE WERE, AND WERE TOLD TO FLY DIRECTLY TO AACES AND THEN QUERIED WHY WE DIDN'T FOLLOW THE AACES DEP. WE TOLD THEM WE WERE GIVEN THE LAS1 DEP. THE NEXT QUERY (A PLT'S NIGHTMARE) WAS TO CALL 'US' AT THE END OF THE FLT. DURING THAT CONVERSATION, THE CTLR TOLD ME SHE EXPECTED US TO MAKE THE AACES2 TURN AFTER TKOF BECAUSE WE WERE GIVEN THE AACES 2 DEP AND NOT THE LAS1. WHEN SHE SAID HER DATA BLOCK INDICATED OUR PDC READ AACES2, I SAID THAT WAS NOT THE DEP WE WERE GIVEN AND I COULD PROVIDE HER WITH A HARD COY OF OUR PDC. CLRLY, THERE IS A PROB WITH COMS/UNDERSTANDING SOMEWHERE IN THE SYS. IT MAY BE HER ASSUMPTION THAT ALL RNAV EQUIPPED AIRPLANES ARE CERTIFIED FOR RNAV DEPS CAUSED HER TO ASSUME WE WERE ON THE AACES2, OR MAYBE SINCE THE FIRST FIX OF THE LAS1 IS AACES, SHE THOUGHT WE SHOULD FLY THE AACES2 PROFILE? SHE MADE THE COMMENT SHE HAD A SIMILAR PROB AND HAD JUST SPOKEN WITH ANOTHER PLT. WE SIMPLY FOLLOWED OUR CLRNC'S SID INSTRUCTIONS FOR OUR ASSIGNED RWY. IF POSSIBLE, I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW THE FOLLOW-UP TO YOUR INVESTIGATION.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.