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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 576013 |
Time | |
Date | 200303 |
Day | Fri |
Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : rsw.airport |
State Reference | FL |
Altitude | agl single value : 0 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | IMC |
Weather Elements | Fog |
Light | Dawn |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tower : jqf.tower |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | ATR 72 |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | climbout : takeoff |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Controlling Facilities | tower : rsw.tower |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Commercial Fixed Wing |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | ground : taxi ground : holding |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : multi engine pilot : instrument pilot : commercial pilot : cfi |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 210 flight time total : 4700 flight time type : 2800 |
ASRS Report | 576013 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp pilot : multi engine |
Experience | flight time total : 13000 flight time type : 2000 |
ASRS Report | 576011 |
Events | |
Anomaly | inflight encounter : weather non adherence : far non adherence : company policies non adherence : published procedure |
Independent Detector | other flight crewa other flight crewb |
Resolutory Action | none taken : anomaly accepted |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | Weather ATC Human Performance Flight Crew Human Performance |
Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | other |
Narrative:
We were taxiing out at rsw at XA534 to runway 6. The tower was still closed but the WX reported was 1/4 mi fog. Once we reached runway 6, the tower opened. We obtained our clearance to mia and were cleared for takeoff. But ATC called the WX RVR 800 ft. We declined takeoff (runway takeoff minimums 1600 ft RVR or 1.4 mi) and advised tower we needed 1600 ft RVR. We later shutdown 1 engine and advised tower to give us a heads up when the visibility would come up to start an engine. When the visibility came up to 1100 RVR, tower gave us a call to start #1 engine. The tower then reported 1/4 mi visibility. We then advised tower we could accept takeoff clearance. As we were taking off, the tower questioned why nobody had taken off when he had reported 1/4 mi all morning. During discussions between rsw tower and other aircraft on the ground, we heard the tower say 'RVR 1100 ft, visibility 1/4 mi.' if he had given us this information before takeoff, we would have declined takeoff clearance. We felt the tower was contradicting and confusing. We also feel we should have been proactive and questioned the RVR and not assumed the WX had improved to such that the tower was no longer using RVR's. Supplemental information from acn 576013: we obtained an en route clearance and were cleared for takeoff with a newly reported 800 ft RVR. Since this was less than the 1600 ft RVR required (if visibility was reported as RVR), we declined the takeoff and waited for visibility to improve. Subsequent reports from ATC were 700 ft RVR, 1200 ft RVR and ten 1/4 SM fog, respectively. An air carrier flight in line behind us advised ATC they would now be able to depart.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: THE ATCT LCL CTLR ISSUED RWY VISIBILITY AS ONE QUARTER MI, WHEN HE SHOULD HAVE ISSUED RVR. THE CREW HAD TKOF MINIMUMS AT ONE QUARTER MI AND DID NOT WHEN 1100 FT RVR WAS ISSUED.
Narrative: WE WERE TAXIING OUT AT RSW AT XA534 TO RWY 6. THE TWR WAS STILL CLOSED BUT THE WX RPTED WAS 1/4 MI FOG. ONCE WE REACHED RWY 6, THE TWR OPENED. WE OBTAINED OUR CLRNC TO MIA AND WERE CLRED FOR TKOF. BUT ATC CALLED THE WX RVR 800 FT. WE DECLINED TKOF (RWY TKOF MINIMUMS 1600 FT RVR OR 1.4 MI) AND ADVISED TWR WE NEEDED 1600 FT RVR. WE LATER SHUTDOWN 1 ENG AND ADVISED TWR TO GIVE US A HEADS UP WHEN THE VISIBILITY WOULD COME UP TO START AN ENG. WHEN THE VISIBILITY CAME UP TO 1100 RVR, TWR GAVE US A CALL TO START #1 ENG. THE TWR THEN RPTED 1/4 MI VISIBILITY. WE THEN ADVISED TWR WE COULD ACCEPT TKOF CLRNC. AS WE WERE TAKING OFF, THE TWR QUESTIONED WHY NOBODY HAD TAKEN OFF WHEN HE HAD RPTED 1/4 MI ALL MORNING. DURING DISCUSSIONS BTWN RSW TWR AND OTHER ACFT ON THE GND, WE HEARD THE TWR SAY 'RVR 1100 FT, VISIBILITY 1/4 MI.' IF HE HAD GIVEN US THIS INFO BEFORE TKOF, WE WOULD HAVE DECLINED TKOF CLRNC. WE FELT THE TWR WAS CONTRADICTING AND CONFUSING. WE ALSO FEEL WE SHOULD HAVE BEEN PROACTIVE AND QUESTIONED THE RVR AND NOT ASSUMED THE WX HAD IMPROVED TO SUCH THAT THE TWR WAS NO LONGER USING RVR'S. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 576013: WE OBTAINED AN ENRTE CLRNC AND WERE CLRED FOR TKOF WITH A NEWLY RPTED 800 FT RVR. SINCE THIS WAS LESS THAN THE 1600 FT RVR REQUIRED (IF VISIBILITY WAS RPTED AS RVR), WE DECLINED THE TKOF AND WAITED FOR VISIBILITY TO IMPROVE. SUBSEQUENT RPTS FROM ATC WERE 700 FT RVR, 1200 FT RVR AND TEN 1/4 SM FOG, RESPECTIVELY. AN ACR FLT IN LINE BEHIND US ADVISED ATC THEY WOULD NOW BE ABLE TO DEPART.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.