37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 585044 |
Time | |
Date | 200306 |
Day | Mon |
Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
Place | |
State Reference | NJ |
Altitude | msl single value : 2000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : phl.tracon |
Operator | general aviation : corporate |
Make Model Name | S-76/S-76 Mark II |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 91 |
Flight Phase | climbout : takeoff descent : approach |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : corporate |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp pilot : instrument pilot : cfi |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 82 flight time total : 8460 flight time type : 1000 |
ASRS Report | 585044 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | government : faa |
Function | controller : approach controller : departure |
Events | |
Anomaly | non adherence : far non adherence : published procedure other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | other |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | FAA |
Primary Problem | FAA |
Situations | |
Airspace Structure | temporary use : presidential tfr's |
Narrative:
Today there was a tfr centered over orange, nj. It was going to start at about XA30 until XF30. The coverage area was 30 NM radius. We are based out of trenton, nj, and one of our company helipads is in ZZZ and lies about 25.5 NM from the center of the tfr. In order to get into and out of our facility a couple of times this morning, I filed 4 IFR flight plans in case the times changed with the tfr. At least we would have our code and would be talking to ATC if things changed. We departed on our IFR flight plan from another one of our company helipads, which is about 5 NM north of YYY. We were on an IFR flight plan from YYY to ZZZ and about to land when I asked philadelphia approach if we could keep our transponder code, land and come right back out in a few mins headed to solberg VOR then to doylestown. (We've done this a lot when the ny ADIZ was in effect and it worked out fine with the controllers.) the controller said that would be fine. We cancelled IFR with ATC and he said to keep the code and call him when we were airborne. We dropped our passenger, waited 5 mins for our next passenger, and departed toward sbj. I called approach and said that we were back in the air with the same code, headed for solberg VOR. The point of this is that with regards to the latest nyc ADIZ and tfrs is that they seem to pop up without much warning and we're all trying to comply with this the best we can. But now I'm second-guessing things after the fact. Even though ATC said we could keep the code, and call him when airborne, I probably should have got our IFR clearance on the ground and then departed. In the future I'll call on every leg that's inside the ADIZ or tfr, take the extra time and get our clrncs if needed.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: RPTR FEELS THAT DISSEMINATION OF INFO REGARDING SECURITY TFRS AND SPECIAL ADIZ (REGARDING DC AND NYC) IS UNSATISFACTORY AND COMPLICATES USER ACCESS TO SUCH AREAS.
Narrative: TODAY THERE WAS A TFR CENTERED OVER ORANGE, NJ. IT WAS GOING TO START AT ABOUT XA30 UNTIL XF30. THE COVERAGE AREA WAS 30 NM RADIUS. WE ARE BASED OUT OF TRENTON, NJ, AND ONE OF OUR COMPANY HELIPADS IS IN ZZZ AND LIES ABOUT 25.5 NM FROM THE CTR OF THE TFR. IN ORDER TO GET INTO AND OUT OF OUR FACILITY A COUPLE OF TIMES THIS MORNING, I FILED 4 IFR FLT PLANS IN CASE THE TIMES CHANGED WITH THE TFR. AT LEAST WE WOULD HAVE OUR CODE AND WOULD BE TALKING TO ATC IF THINGS CHANGED. WE DEPARTED ON OUR IFR FLT PLAN FROM ANOTHER ONE OF OUR COMPANY HELIPADS, WHICH IS ABOUT 5 NM NORTH OF YYY. WE WERE ON AN IFR FLT PLAN FROM YYY TO ZZZ AND ABOUT TO LAND WHEN I ASKED PHILADELPHIA APCH IF WE COULD KEEP OUR XPONDER CODE, LAND AND COME RIGHT BACK OUT IN A FEW MINS HEADED TO SOLBERG VOR THEN TO DOYLESTOWN. (WE'VE DONE THIS A LOT WHEN THE NY ADIZ WAS IN EFFECT AND IT WORKED OUT FINE WITH THE CTLRS.) THE CTLR SAID THAT WOULD BE FINE. WE CANCELLED IFR WITH ATC AND HE SAID TO KEEP THE CODE AND CALL HIM WHEN WE WERE AIRBORNE. WE DROPPED OUR PAX, WAITED 5 MINS FOR OUR NEXT PAX, AND DEPARTED TOWARD SBJ. I CALLED APCH AND SAID THAT WE WERE BACK IN THE AIR WITH THE SAME CODE, HEADED FOR SOLBERG VOR. THE POINT OF THIS IS THAT WITH REGARDS TO THE LATEST NYC ADIZ AND TFRS IS THAT THEY SEEM TO POP UP WITHOUT MUCH WARNING AND WE'RE ALL TRYING TO COMPLY WITH THIS THE BEST WE CAN. BUT NOW I'M SECOND-GUESSING THINGS AFTER THE FACT. EVEN THOUGH ATC SAID WE COULD KEEP THE CODE, AND CALL HIM WHEN AIRBORNE, I PROBABLY SHOULD HAVE GOT OUR IFR CLRNC ON THE GND AND THEN DEPARTED. IN THE FUTURE I'LL CALL ON EVERY LEG THAT'S INSIDE THE ADIZ OR TFR, TAKE THE EXTRA TIME AND GET OUR CLRNCS IF NEEDED.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.