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B737-700 crew and a B737 had TCASII coordinated crossing RA's in abq class east.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 587197 |
| Time | |
| Date | 200307 |
| Day | Mon |
| Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | airport : abq.airport |
| State Reference | NM |
| Altitude | msl single value : 13000 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | VMC |
| Light | Daylight |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | tracon : abq.tracon |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | B737-700 |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Flight Phase | climbout : intermediate altitude |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Aircraft 2 | |
| Controlling Facilities | tracon : abq.tracon |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | B737 Undifferentiated or Other Model |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Flight Phase | descent : approach descent : intermediate altitude |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Qualification | pilot : multi engine pilot : instrument pilot : commercial |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 150 flight time total : 7000 flight time type : 1600 |
| ASRS Report | 587197 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : atp |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 70 flight time total : 7000 flight time type : 4000 |
| ASRS Report | 587249 |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | altitude deviation : excursion from assigned altitude conflict : airborne critical non adherence : clearance other anomaly other |
| Independent Detector | aircraft equipment : tcas other controllera other flight crewa other flight crewb |
| Resolutory Action | controller : issued advisory controller : separated traffic flight crew : took evasive action other |
| Consequence | other |
| Miss Distance | horizontal : 6000 vertical : 500 |
| Supplementary | |
| Problem Areas | Aircraft Flight Crew Human Performance ATC Human Performance |
| Primary Problem | Ambiguous |
Narrative:
After departing abq on runway 8 and turning south, we were told to climb to 15000 ft and given a left turn direct to texico. While in the turn, our altitude was amended to 13000 ft due to traffic inbound to abq. We then heard a company aircraft acknowledge their descent to 14000 ft. We observed the traffic on TCASII and commented we had 1000 ft separation. Departure control then confirmed we were at 13000 ft and company traffic was at 14000 ft. Just after responding to ATC and smoothly leveling at our assigned altitude, we received a TCASII RA command to 'climb, crossing climb!' we were initially surprised because we had visually acquired company traffic and they were above us and we were level. We then responded to the RA appropriately and both aircraft turned to the right to increase lateral separation. (It was obvious he saw us as well as he was descending from above.) TCASII then told us to increase rate of climb which we did. (Green arc was at 2000 FPM climb.) as we reached approximately 13400 ft, the conflict was resolved and we started back to altitude while informing ATC we had responded to a TCASII RA. The purpose of this report is to get the word out that responding to a crossing climb or descent issued by a TCASII RA is very difficult to do as it goes against every instinct you've developed as a pilot (ie, climbing towards an aircraft that you know is above you). In this case, we both did what the 'logic' of the machine told us to do and our separation was never in question but it was very startling at the onset. What put us over the threshold of the TCASII 'logic' is beyond us since we had already leveled at our altitude. We can only surmise that the other aircraft was descending quickly to meet a crossing restr, etc. Supplemental information from acn 587249: I have to admit it's difficult to execute a crossing climb in VMC with traffic in sight. Innate human factors take over. I think if we complied with the RA and company complied as well, it would have worked out ok, but I can't believe that he would have increased his descent knowing we were below him. If this is the new TCASII system, I am not so happy with it.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: B737-700 CREW AND A B737 HAD TCASII COORDINATED XING RA'S IN ABQ CLASS E.
Narrative: AFTER DEPARTING ABQ ON RWY 8 AND TURNING S, WE WERE TOLD TO CLB TO 15000 FT AND GIVEN A L TURN DIRECT TO TEXICO. WHILE IN THE TURN, OUR ALT WAS AMENDED TO 13000 FT DUE TO TFC INBOUND TO ABQ. WE THEN HEARD A COMPANY ACFT ACKNOWLEDGE THEIR DSCNT TO 14000 FT. WE OBSERVED THE TFC ON TCASII AND COMMENTED WE HAD 1000 FT SEPARATION. DEP CTL THEN CONFIRMED WE WERE AT 13000 FT AND COMPANY TFC WAS AT 14000 FT. JUST AFTER RESPONDING TO ATC AND SMOOTHLY LEVELING AT OUR ASSIGNED ALT, WE RECEIVED A TCASII RA COMMAND TO 'CLB, XING CLB!' WE WERE INITIALLY SURPRISED BECAUSE WE HAD VISUALLY ACQUIRED COMPANY TFC AND THEY WERE ABOVE US AND WE WERE LEVEL. WE THEN RESPONDED TO THE RA APPROPRIATELY AND BOTH ACFT TURNED TO THE R TO INCREASE LATERAL SEPARATION. (IT WAS OBVIOUS HE SAW US AS WELL AS HE WAS DSNDING FROM ABOVE.) TCASII THEN TOLD US TO INCREASE RATE OF CLB WHICH WE DID. (GREEN ARC WAS AT 2000 FPM CLB.) AS WE REACHED APPROX 13400 FT, THE CONFLICT WAS RESOLVED AND WE STARTED BACK TO ALT WHILE INFORMING ATC WE HAD RESPONDED TO A TCASII RA. THE PURPOSE OF THIS RPT IS TO GET THE WORD OUT THAT RESPONDING TO A XING CLB OR DSCNT ISSUED BY A TCASII RA IS VERY DIFFICULT TO DO AS IT GOES AGAINST EVERY INSTINCT YOU'VE DEVELOPED AS A PLT (IE, CLBING TOWARDS AN ACFT THAT YOU KNOW IS ABOVE YOU). IN THIS CASE, WE BOTH DID WHAT THE 'LOGIC' OF THE MACHINE TOLD US TO DO AND OUR SEPARATION WAS NEVER IN QUESTION BUT IT WAS VERY STARTLING AT THE ONSET. WHAT PUT US OVER THE THRESHOLD OF THE TCASII 'LOGIC' IS BEYOND US SINCE WE HAD ALREADY LEVELED AT OUR ALT. WE CAN ONLY SURMISE THAT THE OTHER ACFT WAS DSNDING QUICKLY TO MEET A XING RESTR, ETC. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 587249: I HAVE TO ADMIT IT'S DIFFICULT TO EXECUTE A XING CLB IN VMC WITH TFC IN SIGHT. INNATE HUMAN FACTORS TAKE OVER. I THINK IF WE COMPLIED WITH THE RA AND COMPANY COMPLIED AS WELL, IT WOULD HAVE WORKED OUT OK, BUT I CAN'T BELIEVE THAT HE WOULD HAVE INCREASED HIS DSCNT KNOWING WE WERE BELOW HIM. IF THIS IS THE NEW TCASII SYS, I AM NOT SO HAPPY WITH IT.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.