37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 596921 |
Time | |
Date | 200310 |
Day | Fri |
Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | atc facility : scel.tracon |
State Reference | FO |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | artcc : scez.artcc tracon : scel.tracon tower : scel.tower tower : cyyz.tower |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | B777-200 |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | climbout : takeoff descent : approach |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
ASRS Report | 596921 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Events | |
Anomaly | inflight encounter : weather non adherence : clearance non adherence : far non adherence : published procedure non adherence : required legal separation other anomaly other other spatial deviation other spatial deviation |
Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | none taken : anomaly accepted |
Consequence | other |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | Chart Or Publication Airspace Structure ATC Human Performance Company Weather Navigational Facility Environmental Factor Flight Crew Human Performance |
Primary Problem | Ambiguous |
Situations | |
Publication | Company OPS Manual |
Narrative:
There are significant problems with the new guidance in the south american operations information tab, 'takeoff, departure, arrival and approach briefing,' which says 'fly sids, stars, and approachs exactly as depicted on the commercial chart approach plates when in IMC or nighttime conditions.' first problem: sometimes foreign ATC gives you a short vector or direct routing that is necessary to avoid a traffic conflict. To be able to comply, as required by the new guidance, would sometimes cause an immediate traffic conflict and result in communication and coordination issues with the foreign ATC controller. Second problem: sometimes, when you are below the grid mora and need to immediately avoid severe WX, your best option is to check the MVA chart and request an immediate vector to clear the WX. To not have this option would decrease our ability and inclination to avoid severe WX at lower altitudes. Third problem: the new guidance contradicts the general intent and flexibility of procedures located in the south american operations tab, 'south and central american ATC,' which states 'therefore, direct routings during arrs and departures may be issued and, subject to captain's review, are acceptable' (in a radar environment). This gives us the flexibility to accept vectors and direct routings when situational awareness allows it and safety demands it. I know for a fact, that all the guidance reflects a careful and conservative strategy that was developed for south america flying in the late 1900's. The new guidance, however, is a blanket policy that will sometimes prevent us from taking the safest course of action. Thanks for your help in re-evaluating the wording and this shift in policy at our airline.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: A B777 FO ISSUES FORTH WITH THE PROBS AS DISCERNED WITHIN THE NEW MANDATES AS PUBLISHED WITHIN THE CONFINES OF THE AIRLINE'S OPERATIONAL MANUAL PERTAINING TO SOUTH AMERICAN OPS.
Narrative: THERE ARE SIGNIFICANT PROBS WITH THE NEW GUIDANCE IN THE SOUTH AMERICAN OPS INFO TAB, 'TKOF, DEP, ARR AND APCH BRIEFING,' WHICH SAYS 'FLY SIDS, STARS, AND APCHS EXACTLY AS DEPICTED ON THE COMMERCIAL CHART APCH PLATES WHEN IN IMC OR NIGHTTIME CONDITIONS.' FIRST PROB: SOMETIMES FOREIGN ATC GIVES YOU A SHORT VECTOR OR DIRECT ROUTING THAT IS NECESSARY TO AVOID A TFC CONFLICT. TO BE ABLE TO COMPLY, AS REQUIRED BY THE NEW GUIDANCE, WOULD SOMETIMES CAUSE AN IMMEDIATE TFC CONFLICT AND RESULT IN COM AND COORD ISSUES WITH THE FOREIGN ATC CTLR. SECOND PROB: SOMETIMES, WHEN YOU ARE BELOW THE GRID MORA AND NEED TO IMMEDIATELY AVOID SEVERE WX, YOUR BEST OPTION IS TO CHK THE MVA CHART AND REQUEST AN IMMEDIATE VECTOR TO CLR THE WX. TO NOT HAVE THIS OPTION WOULD DECREASE OUR ABILITY AND INCLINATION TO AVOID SEVERE WX AT LOWER ALTS. THIRD PROB: THE NEW GUIDANCE CONTRADICTS THE GENERAL INTENT AND FLEXIBILITY OF PROCS LOCATED IN THE SOUTH AMERICAN OPS TAB, 'SOUTH AND CENTRAL AMERICAN ATC,' WHICH STATES 'THEREFORE, DIRECT ROUTINGS DURING ARRS AND DEPS MAY BE ISSUED AND, SUBJECT TO CAPT'S REVIEW, ARE ACCEPTABLE' (IN A RADAR ENVIRONMENT). THIS GIVES US THE FLEXIBILITY TO ACCEPT VECTORS AND DIRECT ROUTINGS WHEN SITUATIONAL AWARENESS ALLOWS IT AND SAFETY DEMANDS IT. I KNOW FOR A FACT, THAT ALL THE GUIDANCE REFLECTS A CAREFUL AND CONSERVATIVE STRATEGY THAT WAS DEVELOPED FOR SOUTH AMERICA FLYING IN THE LATE 1900'S. THE NEW GUIDANCE, HOWEVER, IS A BLANKET POLICY THAT WILL SOMETIMES PREVENT US FROM TAKING THE SAFEST COURSE OF ACTION. THANKS FOR YOUR HELP IN RE-EVALUATING THE WORDING AND THIS SHIFT IN POLICY AT OUR AIRLINE.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.