37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 607340 |
Time | |
Date | 200402 |
Day | Sat |
Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : cyvr.airport |
State Reference | BC |
Altitude | msl single value : 12000 |
Environment | |
Light | Night |
Aircraft 1 | |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | MD-80 Series (DC-9-80) Undifferentiated or Other Model |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Route In Use | arrival star : acord |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
ASRS Report | 607340 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : commercial pilot : instrument pilot : multi engine |
ASRS Report | 607754 |
Events | |
Anomaly | non adherence : published procedure non adherence : clearance other spatial deviation |
Independent Detector | other controllera other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | none taken : detected after the fact |
Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | Flight Crew Human Performance Chart Or Publication |
Primary Problem | Chart Or Publication |
Situations | |
Chart | airport : cyvr.airport star : acord |
Narrative:
Approach control wanted to talk with our crew after flight. There are two acord seven stars for cyvr. One is for the runway 8 parallels/12 and the other for the 26 parallels. Cyvr was landing 26R and we were advised of that. We were cleared the acord arrival, but no mention of a descent profile or verbiage like acord seven 26R. When we didn't turn for the whatcom (huh) VOR, approach queried us and it was at that time that we discovered another acord 7 on the back side of the one we were using. Since canadian airports always seem to have some little nuance different than what we normally experience, I had thoroughly gone over every page I thought was applicable. Nothing prepared us for two acord 7 stars. In fact we later discovered that the canuck, grizz, and shark stars are similar front and back. This is a setup, particularly since I can think of no other airport with the same front/back arrangement of 2 stars with the same name. Sids, stars, approachs should not be exercises in reading, but remarkably standard for the user who shouldn't have to grapple with parenthesis like on the acord 7 that say (8), (12), or (26). Parentheticals are for extra information, not required clearances. To get a pilot on the same page, you begin with the name of the SID or the STAR and do not confound it with 'oh there is a page two.' different names for all stars or put the information for runways 8, 12, or 26 on the same page, please.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: MD80 CAPT RPTS THAT TITLES OF ARRS AT CYVR ARE CONFUSING IN THAT THE SAME NAME IS USED FOR MULTIPLE ARRS BASED ON WHICH RWY CONFIGURATION IS IN USE.
Narrative: APCH CTL WANTED TO TALK WITH OUR CREW AFTER FLT. THERE ARE TWO ACORD SEVEN STARS FOR CYVR. ONE IS FOR THE RWY 8 PARALLELS/12 AND THE OTHER FOR THE 26 PARALLELS. CYVR WAS LNDG 26R AND WE WERE ADVISED OF THAT. WE WERE CLEARED THE ACORD ARR, BUT NO MENTION OF A DSCNT PROFILE OR VERBIAGE LIKE ACORD SEVEN 26R. WHEN WE DIDN'T TURN FOR THE WHATCOM (HUH) VOR, APCH QUERIED US AND IT WAS AT THAT TIME THAT WE DISCOVERED ANOTHER ACORD 7 ON THE BACK SIDE OF THE ONE WE WERE USING. SINCE CANADIAN ARPTS ALWAYS SEEM TO HAVE SOME LITTLE NUANCE DIFFERENT THAN WHAT WE NORMALLY EXPERIENCE, I HAD THOROUGHLY GONE OVER EVERY PAGE I THOUGHT WAS APPLICABLE. NOTHING PREPARED US FOR TWO ACORD 7 STARS. IN FACT WE LATER DISCOVERED THAT THE CANUCK, GRIZZ, AND SHARK STARS ARE SIMILAR FRONT AND BACK. THIS IS A SETUP, PARTICULARLY SINCE I CAN THINK OF NO OTHER ARPT WITH THE SAME FRONT/BACK ARRANGEMENT OF 2 STARS WITH THE SAME NAME. SIDS, STARS, APCHS SHOULD NOT BE EXERCISES IN READING, BUT REMARKABLY STANDARD FOR THE USER WHO SHOULDN'T HAVE TO GRAPPLE WITH PARENTHESIS LIKE ON THE ACORD 7 THAT SAY (8), (12), OR (26). PARENTHETICALS ARE FOR EXTRA INFO, NOT REQUIRED CLEARANCES. TO GET A PLT ON THE SAME PAGE, YOU BEGIN WITH THE NAME OF THE SID OR THE STAR AND DO NOT CONFOUND IT WITH 'OH THERE IS A PAGE TWO.' DIFFERENT NAMES FOR ALL STARS OR PUT THE INFO FOR RWYS 8, 12, OR 26 ON THE SAME PAGE, PLEASE.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.