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A C172 low time CFI reported that he and a student were reprimanded for performing the full approach at mgj in N90's airspace.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 612553 |
| Time | |
| Date | 200403 |
| Day | Wed |
| Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | intersection : diyad |
| State Reference | NY |
| Altitude | agl single value : 3000 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | VMC |
| Light | Daylight |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | tracon : n90.tracon |
| Operator | general aviation : instructional |
| Make Model Name | Skyhawk 172/Cutlass 172 |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 91 |
| Navigation In Use | ils localizer & glide slope : 3 |
| Flight Phase | descent : approach descent other |
| Route In Use | approach : instrument precision enroute airway : v213.airway |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Aircraft 2 | |
| Make Model Name | Any Unknown or Unlisted Aircraft Manufacturer |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | other |
| Function | instruction : instructor |
| Qualification | pilot : commercial pilot : cfi pilot : instrument |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 40.9 flight time total : 350 flight time type : 160 |
| ASRS Report | 612553 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | other |
| Function | instruction : trainee |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | non adherence : clearance non adherence : far non adherence : published procedure other spatial deviation |
| Independent Detector | other controllera |
| Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance controller : issued advisory |
| Supplementary | |
| Problem Areas | Flight Crew Human Performance ATC Human Performance |
| Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
| Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
While on an IFR flight plan with an instrument student, we had a misunderstanding of communication with a new york approach controller. We were between the intxns of crank and shaff on V213, as filed, on our way to do a practice ILS at mgj. At this point, the controller said we would proceed direct to diyad and that we were cleared for the approach. I had the student maintain 3000 ft and proceeded to diyad as an IAF. While at this altitude, and 1 mi or so from diyad, the controller had us switch to CTAF. After crossing diyad, we commenced performing the full procedure. While we were on the procedure turn inbound, another aircraft on CTAF informed us that new york approach would like to speak to us returning to the new york approach frequency, the controller reprimanded us for doing the full procedure after having been cleared for the approach earlier. My confusion is this: 1) we were not given a heading to intercept the localizer when we were given clearance to go direct diyad, 2) there were 2 other, more logical intxns at which we could have intercepted the localizer between us and diyad while on V213 (joyst and nissn), 3) we were not given vectors to get established on course ahead of the OM (diyad). In the future, I will ask the controller for clarification, or request specifically that we would like the full procedure.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: A C172 LOW TIME CFI RPTED THAT HE AND A STUDENT WERE REPRIMANDED FOR PERFORMING THE FULL APCH AT MGJ IN N90'S AIRSPACE.
Narrative: WHILE ON AN IFR FLT PLAN WITH AN INST STUDENT, WE HAD A MISUNDERSTANDING OF COM WITH A NEW YORK APCH CTLR. WE WERE BTWN THE INTXNS OF CRANK AND SHAFF ON V213, AS FILED, ON OUR WAY TO DO A PRACTICE ILS AT MGJ. AT THIS POINT, THE CTLR SAID WE WOULD PROCEED DIRECT TO DIYAD AND THAT WE WERE CLRED FOR THE APCH. I HAD THE STUDENT MAINTAIN 3000 FT AND PROCEEDED TO DIYAD AS AN IAF. WHILE AT THIS ALT, AND 1 MI OR SO FROM DIYAD, THE CTLR HAD US SWITCH TO CTAF. AFTER XING DIYAD, WE COMMENCED PERFORMING THE FULL PROC. WHILE WE WERE ON THE PROC TURN INBOUND, ANOTHER ACFT ON CTAF INFORMED US THAT NEW YORK APCH WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK TO US RETURNING TO THE NEW YORK APCH FREQ, THE CTLR REPRIMANDED US FOR DOING THE FULL PROC AFTER HAVING BEEN CLRED FOR THE APCH EARLIER. MY CONFUSION IS THIS: 1) WE WERE NOT GIVEN A HDG TO INTERCEPT THE LOC WHEN WE WERE GIVEN CLRNC TO GO DIRECT DIYAD, 2) THERE WERE 2 OTHER, MORE LOGICAL INTXNS AT WHICH WE COULD HAVE INTERCEPTED THE LOC BTWN US AND DIYAD WHILE ON V213 (JOYST AND NISSN), 3) WE WERE NOT GIVEN VECTORS TO GET ESTABLISHED ON COURSE AHEAD OF THE OM (DIYAD). IN THE FUTURE, I WILL ASK THE CTLR FOR CLARIFICATION, OR REQUEST SPECIFICALLY THAT WE WOULD LIKE THE FULL PROC.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.