Narrative:

We were initially cleared to taxi to runway 19 by taxiway J, hold short of runway 15. In another transmission, ground said to taxi straight ahead to taxiway J, and I thought, taxi to runway 19. Approaching runway 15, first officer called out 'runway, runway,' just as the ground controller issued instructions to continue across runway 15 and hold on the blacktop on the other side. I believed we had been cleared to runway 19 in the ground controller's second transmission. The first officer did not hear this. I still am not certain. The controller's third transmission was received as we were crossing the runway boundary. I asked the controller after crossing the runway if we had in fact been cleared to cross, and he too seemed unsure in his answer, but answered that we had. I am still unsure. I am sure of one thing though. If we did not, we had an incursion because I misheard an instruction. I say that I misheard, leading to an incursion, because our company's training divides the cockpit duties, leaving the first officer out of the loop during taxi and thus leaving the captain on his own.' approaching runway 15, the first officer was involved in the lengthy briefing of nearly everything on the takeoff data sheet that is taught in training, and incidentally not required by any procedure. Approaching the runway, I called out 'clear left,' and reached over and turned on the wing/nacelle lights. He did not answer, but continued the briefing. I called out 'clear right,' and we began to cross the runway. Only after the third transmission from ground control did he realize where we were. I am not trying to place blame on the first officer. He does a good job. He does what he was trained to do. This training takes him, and all the first officer's, out of the loop at critical times, especially during taxi, while accomplishing almost nothing. We may have had a runway incursion. I am still not sure. If we did, I made the primary mistake. Our company training contributed by teaching a technique that is not required by procedure, that effectively eliminates the single most important reason to have 2 people in the cockpit, which is to have 2 minds and 2 sets of eyes actively engaged in the operation of the airplane. Supplemental information from acn 617643: right before crossing runway 15, I told the captain that I did not think we were cleared to cross runway 15. I was accomplishing checklist duties while the captain taxied along taxiway J, and I did not look up until the last min. Perhaps had I been breaking up my checklist, I would have queried the captain and ground sooner. I repeat, I do not think an incursion occurred, but I may be wrong.

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Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: MD82 CREW MAY OR MAY NOT HAVE HAD A RWY INCURSION AT DCA. NEW COMPANY POLICIES TAKE THE FO OUT OF THE TAXI LOOP.

Narrative: WE WERE INITIALLY CLRED TO TAXI TO RWY 19 BY TXWY J, HOLD SHORT OF RWY 15. IN ANOTHER XMISSION, GND SAID TO TAXI STRAIGHT AHEAD TO TXWY J, AND I THOUGHT, TAXI TO RWY 19. APCHING RWY 15, FO CALLED OUT 'RWY, RWY,' JUST AS THE GND CTLR ISSUED INSTRUCTIONS TO CONTINUE ACROSS RWY 15 AND HOLD ON THE BLACKTOP ON THE OTHER SIDE. I BELIEVED WE HAD BEEN CLRED TO RWY 19 IN THE GND CTLR'S SECOND XMISSION. THE FO DID NOT HEAR THIS. I STILL AM NOT CERTAIN. THE CTLR'S THIRD XMISSION WAS RECEIVED AS WE WERE XING THE RWY BOUNDARY. I ASKED THE CTLR AFTER XING THE RWY IF WE HAD IN FACT BEEN CLRED TO CROSS, AND HE TOO SEEMED UNSURE IN HIS ANSWER, BUT ANSWERED THAT WE HAD. I AM STILL UNSURE. I AM SURE OF ONE THING THOUGH. IF WE DID NOT, WE HAD AN INCURSION BECAUSE I MISHEARD AN INSTRUCTION. I SAY THAT I MISHEARD, LEADING TO AN INCURSION, BECAUSE OUR COMPANY'S TRAINING DIVIDES THE COCKPIT DUTIES, LEAVING THE FO OUT OF THE LOOP DURING TAXI AND THUS LEAVING THE CAPT ON HIS OWN.' APCHING RWY 15, THE FO WAS INVOLVED IN THE LENGTHY BRIEFING OF NEARLY EVERYTHING ON THE TKOF DATA SHEET THAT IS TAUGHT IN TRAINING, AND INCIDENTALLY NOT REQUIRED BY ANY PROC. APCHING THE RWY, I CALLED OUT 'CLR L,' AND REACHED OVER AND TURNED ON THE WING/NACELLE LIGHTS. HE DID NOT ANSWER, BUT CONTINUED THE BRIEFING. I CALLED OUT 'CLR R,' AND WE BEGAN TO CROSS THE RWY. ONLY AFTER THE THIRD XMISSION FROM GND CTL DID HE REALIZE WHERE WE WERE. I AM NOT TRYING TO PLACE BLAME ON THE FO. HE DOES A GOOD JOB. HE DOES WHAT HE WAS TRAINED TO DO. THIS TRAINING TAKES HIM, AND ALL THE FO'S, OUT OF THE LOOP AT CRITICAL TIMES, ESPECIALLY DURING TAXI, WHILE ACCOMPLISHING ALMOST NOTHING. WE MAY HAVE HAD A RWY INCURSION. I AM STILL NOT SURE. IF WE DID, I MADE THE PRIMARY MISTAKE. OUR COMPANY TRAINING CONTRIBUTED BY TEACHING A TECHNIQUE THAT IS NOT REQUIRED BY PROC, THAT EFFECTIVELY ELIMINATES THE SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT REASON TO HAVE 2 PEOPLE IN THE COCKPIT, WHICH IS TO HAVE 2 MINDS AND 2 SETS OF EYES ACTIVELY ENGAGED IN THE OP OF THE AIRPLANE. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 617643: RIGHT BEFORE XING RWY 15, I TOLD THE CAPT THAT I DID NOT THINK WE WERE CLRED TO CROSS RWY 15. I WAS ACCOMPLISHING CHKLIST DUTIES WHILE THE CAPT TAXIED ALONG TXWY J, AND I DID NOT LOOK UP UNTIL THE LAST MIN. PERHAPS HAD I BEEN BREAKING UP MY CHKLIST, I WOULD HAVE QUERIED THE CAPT AND GND SOONER. I REPEAT, I DO NOT THINK AN INCURSION OCCURRED, BUT I MAY BE WRONG.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.