<< >> NASA ASRS Report 623372, July 2004

B737 flight crew on visual approach to lax runway 25L expressed concern regarding TCASII RA caused by succeeding aircraft on approach to runway 25R.

Attributes
ACN	623372
Time
Date	200407
Day	Sat
Local Time Of Day	0601 To 1200
Place
Locale Reference	airport : lax.airport
State Reference	CA
Altitude	msl single value : 1500
Environment
Flight Conditions	VMC
Light	Daylight
Aircraft 1
Controlling Facilities	tracon : sct.tracon
Operator	common carrier : air carrier
Make Model Name	B737-300
Operating Under FAR Part	Part 121
Flight Phase	descent : approach
Route In Use	approach : visual
Flight Plan	IFR
Aircraft 2
Controlling Facilities	tracon : a11.tracon tracon : sct.tracon
Operator	common carrier : air carrier
Make Model Name	Commercial Fixed Wing
Operating Under FAR Part	Part 121
Flight Phase	descent : approach
Route In Use	approach : visual
Flight Plan	IFR
Person 1
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : first officer
Qualification	pilot : instrument pilot : commercial pilot : multi engine
Experience	flight time last 90 days : 240 flight time total : 5000 flight time type : 350
ASRS Report	623372
Person 2
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : captain oversight : pic
Qualification	pilot : atp
Experience	flight time last 90 days : 40 flight time total : 6000 flight time type : 4000
ASRS Report	623374
Events
Anomaly	conflict : airborne critical other anomaly other
Independent Detector	aircraft equipment : tcas other flight crewa other flight crewb
Resolutory Action	flight crew : took evasive action
Miss Distance	horizontal : 6000
Supplementary
Problem Areas	ATC Human Performance Flight Crew Human Performance
Primary Problem	ATC Human Performance

Narrative:

On visual approach to runway 25L at lax, 5 mi behind another carrier B757 heavy. A different carrier was vectored in behind us for the visual to runway 25R. At about the hunda intersection, the TCASII gave us an RA. There was an aircraft at our 6 O'clock position and 1 mi. ATC advised us that it was the second carrier. At limma intersection, we got an RA to descend, which we complied with. I looked out the first officer's window and saw the second named carrier slightly high and just behind our wing. He made no attempt to climb away and in fact, looked like he was trying to fly formation on us. We didn't want to go lower on the GS because of the heavy B757 in front of us and we didn't think it was safe to go missed and climb up through the second carrier's altitude. Further, there was traffic on the downwind to the left. Our only option was to keep the second carrier in sight and get some separation within stabilized approach criteria. The second carrier captain's actions were reckless and dangerous. He deliberately closed the 1 mi gap on us, stayed in the same relative position off our wing as we responded to the TCASII and made no attempt to stay away from us.

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Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: B737 FLT CREW ON VISUAL APCH TO LAX RWY 25L EXPRESSED CONCERN REGARDING TCASII RA CAUSED BY SUCCEEDING ACFT ON APCH TO RWY 25R.

Narrative: ON VISUAL APCH TO RWY 25L AT LAX, 5 MI BEHIND ANOTHER CARRIER B757 HVY. A DIFFERENT CARRIER WAS VECTORED IN BEHIND US FOR THE VISUAL TO RWY 25R. AT ABOUT THE HUNDA INTXN, THE TCASII GAVE US AN RA. THERE WAS AN ACFT AT OUR 6 O'CLOCK POS AND 1 MI. ATC ADVISED US THAT IT WAS THE SECOND CARRIER. AT LIMMA INTXN, WE GOT AN RA TO DSND, WHICH WE COMPLIED WITH. I LOOKED OUT THE FO'S WINDOW AND SAW THE SECOND NAMED CARRIER SLIGHTLY HIGH AND JUST BEHIND OUR WING. HE MADE NO ATTEMPT TO CLB AWAY AND IN FACT, LOOKED LIKE HE WAS TRYING TO FLY FORMATION ON US. WE DIDN'T WANT TO GO LOWER ON THE GS BECAUSE OF THE HVY B757 IN FRONT OF US AND WE DIDN'T THINK IT WAS SAFE TO GO MISSED AND CLB UP THROUGH THE SECOND CARRIER'S ALT. FURTHER, THERE WAS TFC ON THE DOWNWIND TO THE L. OUR ONLY OPTION WAS TO KEEP THE SECOND CARRIER IN SIGHT AND GET SOME SEPARATION WITHIN STABILIZED APCH CRITERIA. THE SECOND CARRIER CAPT'S ACTIONS WERE RECKLESS AND DANGEROUS. HE DELIBERATELY CLOSED THE 1 MI GAP ON US, STAYED IN THE SAME RELATIVE POS OFF OUR WING AS WE RESPONDED TO THE TCASII AND MADE NO ATTEMPT TO STAY AWAY FROM US.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.