37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 625517 |
Time | |
Date | 200407 |
Day | Fri |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : ord.airport |
State Reference | IL |
Altitude | msl single value : 5700 |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : c90.tracon tower : yum.tower |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Embraer Undifferentiated or Other Model |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | climbout : intermediate altitude |
Route In Use | departure : on vectors |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
ASRS Report | 625517 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : commercial pilot : instrument pilot : multi engine |
ASRS Report | 625518 |
Events | |
Anomaly | non adherence : clearance other spatial deviation |
Independent Detector | other flight crewa other flight crewb |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance |
Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew other |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | ATC Human Performance Flight Crew Human Performance |
Primary Problem | Ambiguous |
Narrative:
During climb out in the ord TRACON, we were climbing to our cleared altitude of 6000 ft. At 5700 ft ATC cleared us 'turn right to 200 degrees and climb to 13000 ft.' what we heard was, 'air carrier X, turn right (traffic, traffic) climb and maintain one-three-thousand ft.' I read back, 'cleared to one-three-thousand ft and say the heading.' while passing 6000 ft and still maintaining a heading of 180 degrees, I asked the first officer (also the PF) if he caught the heading. He did not either, at 6200 ft I asked ATC again to 'say heading.' there was no reply to either of my requests. About 10-15 seconds later, ATC demanded to know if we were in the turn yet. I said I asked him to repeat the heading clearance to which he angrily replied if we did not understand the entire clearance we should not comply with any of it. This is a typical ATC catch-22. He then instructed us to maintain current heading. About 30 seconds later, he said there was no separation compromised as the traffic he was turning us from was never within 3 mi. It was just within his comfort range. Almost another min elapsed when we listened to this controller revisit the tirade he had given us only 90 seconds earlier. He hadn't used a call sign so we didn't respond. After a moment of silence, he asked us if we copied anything he said. I replied 'everything but the call sign.' all too often, clrncs are getting blocked or garbled. The pilots are asking for repeats of clrncs but ATC does not respond. The communication procedures in ord TRACON need to change. This does not happen in canada. The ATC controller always put in the last word. Supplemental information from acn 625518: the reason for the missed call is that the TCASII was alerting us of traffic. The altitude was set to 13000 ft so I continued the climb, but stayed on heading last assigned which was 180 degrees until heading was confirmed.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: EMJ DEP FROM ORD, HEARS ONLY ALT ASSIGNMENT TURN DIRECTION BLOCKED, COMPLIES WITH ALT, CONTINUES ON HDG AND IS COUNSELED BY THE CTLR.
Narrative: DURING CLBOUT IN THE ORD TRACON, WE WERE CLBING TO OUR CLRED ALT OF 6000 FT. AT 5700 FT ATC CLRED US 'TURN R TO 200 DEGS AND CLB TO 13000 FT.' WHAT WE HEARD WAS, 'ACR X, TURN R (TFC, TFC) CLB AND MAINTAIN ONE-THREE-THOUSAND FT.' I READ BACK, 'CLRED TO ONE-THREE-THOUSAND FT AND SAY THE HDG.' WHILE PASSING 6000 FT AND STILL MAINTAINING A HDG OF 180 DEGS, I ASKED THE FO (ALSO THE PF) IF HE CAUGHT THE HDG. HE DID NOT EITHER, AT 6200 FT I ASKED ATC AGAIN TO 'SAY HDG.' THERE WAS NO REPLY TO EITHER OF MY REQUESTS. ABOUT 10-15 SECONDS LATER, ATC DEMANDED TO KNOW IF WE WERE IN THE TURN YET. I SAID I ASKED HIM TO REPEAT THE HDG CLRNC TO WHICH HE ANGRILY REPLIED IF WE DID NOT UNDERSTAND THE ENTIRE CLRNC WE SHOULD NOT COMPLY WITH ANY OF IT. THIS IS A TYPICAL ATC CATCH-22. HE THEN INSTRUCTED US TO MAINTAIN CURRENT HDG. ABOUT 30 SECONDS LATER, HE SAID THERE WAS NO SEPARATION COMPROMISED AS THE TFC HE WAS TURNING US FROM WAS NEVER WITHIN 3 MI. IT WAS JUST WITHIN HIS COMFORT RANGE. ALMOST ANOTHER MIN ELAPSED WHEN WE LISTENED TO THIS CTLR REVISIT THE TIRADE HE HAD GIVEN US ONLY 90 SECONDS EARLIER. HE HADN'T USED A CALL SIGN SO WE DIDN'T RESPOND. AFTER A MOMENT OF SILENCE, HE ASKED US IF WE COPIED ANYTHING HE SAID. I REPLIED 'EVERYTHING BUT THE CALL SIGN.' ALL TOO OFTEN, CLRNCS ARE GETTING BLOCKED OR GARBLED. THE PLTS ARE ASKING FOR REPEATS OF CLRNCS BUT ATC DOES NOT RESPOND. THE COM PROCS IN ORD TRACON NEED TO CHANGE. THIS DOES NOT HAPPEN IN CANADA. THE ATC CTLR ALWAYS PUT IN THE LAST WORD. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 625518: THE REASON FOR THE MISSED CALL IS THAT THE TCASII WAS ALERTING US OF TFC. THE ALT WAS SET TO 13000 FT SO I CONTINUED THE CLB, BUT STAYED ON HDG LAST ASSIGNED WHICH WAS 180 DEGS UNTIL HDG WAS CONFIRMED.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.