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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 635521 |
Time | |
Date | 200410 |
Day | Sat |
Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : atl.airport |
State Reference | GA |
Altitude | agl single value : 0 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tower : zzz.tower |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | MD-80 Series (DC-9-80) Undifferentiated or Other Model |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | ground : taxi |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
ASRS Report | 635521 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Events | |
Anomaly | non adherence : clearance |
Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance none taken : detected after the fact |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Narrative:
We landed on runway 27L and exited N2. Tower said, 'hold short of runway 27R at the west end.' both the first officer and I thought the clearance was unclr if he meant the west end of runway 27R physically as in taxi west on taxiway north and hold short of runway 27R at txwys left/P or hold short at the west side (half) of taxiway T. (There was an rj holding short on the east half of taxiway T facing west.) I could see the scenario in this case for both of us to hold short and cross one at a time. That did seem non standard and could cause a problem behind me with another exiting aircraft, so I wanted to clarify but the tower was a little busy. So I slowed my taxi and started a slight angle to taxiway T. Tower saw where I was heading and with a little impatience told us to go down to the end of the runway. Now I knew exactly what he meant. I called and politely talked to tower supervisor and she said they use that phrase hundreds of times a day and air carrier X is the only ones that don't understand it. Air carrier Y and air carrier Z know what it means. She believes the clearance is valid and legal. She also told me of, 'the loop' which we can be told to taxi via the loop coming north out of terminal 1 and 2 where txwys east and F are. I didn't get her directions clearly on that one, but if they ever tell me to taxi via the loop I will have to ask for clarification. When I told her that had the controller said continue west on taxiway north and hold short of runway 27R at taxiway left I definitely would have understood him, she said that takes too many words. I understand there are rules of phraseology and she even looked in her reference and it states on holding shorts to say at a location, point, or intersection. To me at that moment, 'at the west end' did not fit very well with the phraseology requirement. Also, 'the loop' means nothing without a written or verbal explanation. In any case, we were having to either fill in a blank of information, guess, or ask for a little more information. The supervisor said several air carrier X pilots have called her about this item. There appears to be a small trend here and she said she is willing to talk to our ATC person. I never felt she understood where I was coming from with this.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: AFTER LNDG RWY 27L AT ATL, AN MD80 CREW BECAME CONFUSED WITH TAXI INSTRUCTIONS ISSUED BY THE LCL CTLR.
Narrative: WE LANDED ON RWY 27L AND EXITED N2. TWR SAID, 'HOLD SHORT OF RWY 27R AT THE W END.' BOTH THE FO AND I THOUGHT THE CLRNC WAS UNCLR IF HE MEANT THE W END OF RWY 27R PHYSICALLY AS IN TAXI W ON TXWY N AND HOLD SHORT OF RWY 27R AT TXWYS L/P OR HOLD SHORT AT THE W SIDE (HALF) OF TXWY T. (THERE WAS AN RJ HOLDING SHORT ON THE E HALF OF TXWY T FACING W.) I COULD SEE THE SCENARIO IN THIS CASE FOR BOTH OF US TO HOLD SHORT AND CROSS ONE AT A TIME. THAT DID SEEM NON STANDARD AND COULD CAUSE A PROB BEHIND ME WITH ANOTHER EXITING ACFT, SO I WANTED TO CLARIFY BUT THE TWR WAS A LITTLE BUSY. SO I SLOWED MY TAXI AND STARTED A SLIGHT ANGLE TO TXWY T. TWR SAW WHERE I WAS HDG AND WITH A LITTLE IMPATIENCE TOLD US TO GO DOWN TO THE END OF THE RWY. NOW I KNEW EXACTLY WHAT HE MEANT. I CALLED AND POLITELY TALKED TO TWR SUPVR AND SHE SAID THEY USE THAT PHRASE HUNDREDS OF TIMES A DAY AND ACR X IS THE ONLY ONES THAT DON'T UNDERSTAND IT. ACR Y AND ACR Z KNOW WHAT IT MEANS. SHE BELIEVES THE CLRNC IS VALID AND LEGAL. SHE ALSO TOLD ME OF, 'THE LOOP' WHICH WE CAN BE TOLD TO TAXI VIA THE LOOP COMING N OUT OF TERMINAL 1 AND 2 WHERE TXWYS E AND F ARE. I DIDN'T GET HER DIRECTIONS CLRLY ON THAT ONE, BUT IF THEY EVER TELL ME TO TAXI VIA THE LOOP I WILL HAVE TO ASK FOR CLARIFICATION. WHEN I TOLD HER THAT HAD THE CTLR SAID CONTINUE W ON TXWY N AND HOLD SHORT OF RWY 27R AT TXWY L I DEFINITELY WOULD HAVE UNDERSTOOD HIM, SHE SAID THAT TAKES TOO MANY WORDS. I UNDERSTAND THERE ARE RULES OF PHRASEOLOGY AND SHE EVEN LOOKED IN HER REF AND IT STATES ON HOLDING SHORTS TO SAY AT A LOCATION, POINT, OR INTXN. TO ME AT THAT MOMENT, 'AT THE W END' DID NOT FIT VERY WELL WITH THE PHRASEOLOGY REQUIREMENT. ALSO, 'THE LOOP' MEANS NOTHING WITHOUT A WRITTEN OR VERBAL EXPLANATION. IN ANY CASE, WE WERE HAVING TO EITHER FILL IN A BLANK OF INFO, GUESS, OR ASK FOR A LITTLE MORE INFO. THE SUPVR SAID SEVERAL ACR X PLTS HAVE CALLED HER ABOUT THIS ITEM. THERE APPEARS TO BE A SMALL TREND HERE AND SHE SAID SHE IS WILLING TO TALK TO OUR ATC PERSON. I NEVER FELT SHE UNDERSTOOD WHERE I WAS COMING FROM WITH THIS.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.