Narrative:

I was the captain on a B757 from iad to mmun. On 3 occasions; dispatch listed eyw and mmun as ETOPS alternates. Being familiar with south florida; I didn't question those alternates until; on the first flight; after passing the west coast of florida and beginning our overwater portion; I attempted to put eyw in the fix page of the FMC. Eyw was not in the database! I looked up eyw in the approach plates and found none there. Nqx was there; however. Curious; I picked up the fom and looked for eyw in the airport's chapter. It does not appear! Interestingly; once again; nqx does. As a conscientious captain; I find it disturbing that I am provided with an ETOPS alternate for which I have no data whatsoever -- no runway length; width; approachs; information about facilities; lighting -- nothing. I think it would be at the very least irresponsible of me to choose to land my airplane; and a crippled one at that; at an airport with such a paucity of information. As such; I struck up a conversation with the dispatcher questioning why nqx which is so close to eyw; is listed in our fom as an online airport; and for which I have airport data; was not used instead. His comments were; 'pet information is adequate airport only...just a piece of concrete in case you flame one out. Key west will look like O'hare to you when that happens!' first of all; I don't consider an airport for which I have no information to be adequate! Just any piece of concrete will not do! When asked about using airports for which I have no information; his response was; 'we can use them...sure. It depends upon the dispatcher...I stay with online stations....' 'any airport available is en route while you are a glider is adequate to me.' when asked where he'd be when I was sitting across the table from the FAA trying to explain why I landed at an unlisted airport about which I had no information; he responded; 'you know...land now...worry later!' 'I heard pena blvd can handle your aircraft.' I then tried to impress upon him that this was supposed to be a cooperative effort and I was looking for a little help here. I happen to take my responsibility very seriously. He responded; 'all kidding aside...we look at that but when push comes to shove...5000 ft runway should be able to handle a B757.' 'but that pet information is just that -- information. It is not illegal to use key west.' funny; I thought unless you were on fire or had no operating engines; you were to use only those airports listed in the manual as regular; alternate; refueling; provisional; or emergency. That would make all others illegal. I am also bound by far part 91.103; which paraphrased states: 'no person may land a civil aircraft at any airport with which he has not familiarized himself.' since I have no means with which to familiarize myself with eyw; then to use it as an alternate; in my mind; is in violation with that part. Regardless of legality; isn't the dispatcher's responsibility to provide me with information (ie; ETOPS alternates) that I can use? He says 'pet' information is just that -- information. Well; unless I have approach plates and runway information; it is useless information! And is not just information. It is an alternate; and an unlisted one at that. Even if I'm on fire; and especially if I've lost an engine; I need all the external help I can get to guide the jet to a safe landing; and that means approach plates and runway information; particularly if an adequate airport is very nearby. This dispatcher's glib responses to what I consider reasonable questioning of a policy that is either not being followed; or that doesn't adequately address the needs of the pilot was disturbing to me. If we don't presently have a policy that online airports as defined in the fom should be the only airports referenced on a flight plan; then we should certainly make it policy. I printed all of this dispatcher's responses to my queries if you should be interested and; of course; he signed them all.

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Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: CAPT OF ETOPS B757-200 IS CONCERNED THAT ARPT DATA FOR ETOPS ALTERNATES ON THEIR FLT PLAN IS NOT AVAILABLE IN THE FMC DATABASE.

Narrative: I WAS THE CAPT ON A B757 FROM IAD TO MMUN. ON 3 OCCASIONS; DISPATCH LISTED EYW AND MMUN AS ETOPS ALTERNATES. BEING FAMILIAR WITH SOUTH FLORIDA; I DIDN'T QUESTION THOSE ALTERNATES UNTIL; ON THE FIRST FLT; AFTER PASSING THE WEST COAST OF FLORIDA AND BEGINNING OUR OVERWATER PORTION; I ATTEMPTED TO PUT EYW IN THE FIX PAGE OF THE FMC. EYW WAS NOT IN THE DATABASE! I LOOKED UP EYW IN THE APCH PLATES AND FOUND NONE THERE. NQX WAS THERE; HOWEVER. CURIOUS; I PICKED UP THE FOM AND LOOKED FOR EYW IN THE ARPT'S CHAPTER. IT DOES NOT APPEAR! INTERESTINGLY; ONCE AGAIN; NQX DOES. AS A CONSCIENTIOUS CAPT; I FIND IT DISTURBING THAT I AM PROVIDED WITH AN ETOPS ALTERNATE FOR WHICH I HAVE NO DATA WHATSOEVER -- NO RWY LENGTH; WIDTH; APCHS; INFO ABOUT FACILITIES; LIGHTING -- NOTHING. I THINK IT WOULD BE AT THE VERY LEAST IRRESPONSIBLE OF ME TO CHOOSE TO LAND MY AIRPLANE; AND A CRIPPLED ONE AT THAT; AT AN ARPT WITH SUCH A PAUCITY OF INFO. AS SUCH; I STRUCK UP A CONVERSATION WITH THE DISPATCHER QUESTIONING WHY NQX WHICH IS SO CLOSE TO EYW; IS LISTED IN OUR FOM AS AN ONLINE ARPT; AND FOR WHICH I HAVE ARPT DATA; WAS NOT USED INSTEAD. HIS COMMENTS WERE; 'PET INFO IS ADEQUATE ARPT ONLY...JUST A PIECE OF CONCRETE IN CASE YOU FLAME ONE OUT. KEY WEST WILL LOOK LIKE O'HARE TO YOU WHEN THAT HAPPENS!' FIRST OF ALL; I DON'T CONSIDER AN ARPT FOR WHICH I HAVE NO INFO TO BE ADEQUATE! JUST ANY PIECE OF CONCRETE WILL NOT DO! WHEN ASKED ABOUT USING ARPTS FOR WHICH I HAVE NO INFO; HIS RESPONSE WAS; 'WE CAN USE THEM...SURE. IT DEPENDS UPON THE DISPATCHER...I STAY WITH ONLINE STATIONS....' 'ANY ARPT AVAILABLE IS ENRTE WHILE YOU ARE A GLIDER IS ADEQUATE TO ME.' WHEN ASKED WHERE HE'D BE WHEN I WAS SITTING ACROSS THE TABLE FROM THE FAA TRYING TO EXPLAIN WHY I LANDED AT AN UNLISTED ARPT ABOUT WHICH I HAD NO INFO; HE RESPONDED; 'YOU KNOW...LAND NOW...WORRY LATER!' 'I HEARD PENA BLVD CAN HANDLE YOUR ACFT.' I THEN TRIED TO IMPRESS UPON HIM THAT THIS WAS SUPPOSED TO BE A COOPERATIVE EFFORT AND I WAS LOOKING FOR A LITTLE HELP HERE. I HAPPEN TO TAKE MY RESPONSIBILITY VERY SERIOUSLY. HE RESPONDED; 'ALL KIDDING ASIDE...WE LOOK AT THAT BUT WHEN PUSH COMES TO SHOVE...5000 FT RWY SHOULD BE ABLE TO HANDLE A B757.' 'BUT THAT PET INFO IS JUST THAT -- INFO. IT IS NOT ILLEGAL TO USE KEY WEST.' FUNNY; I THOUGHT UNLESS YOU WERE ON FIRE OR HAD NO OPERATING ENGS; YOU WERE TO USE ONLY THOSE ARPTS LISTED IN THE MANUAL AS REGULAR; ALTERNATE; REFUELING; PROVISIONAL; OR EMER. THAT WOULD MAKE ALL OTHERS ILLEGAL. I AM ALSO BOUND BY FAR PART 91.103; WHICH PARAPHRASED STATES: 'NO PERSON MAY LAND A CIVIL ACFT AT ANY ARPT WITH WHICH HE HAS NOT FAMILIARIZED HIMSELF.' SINCE I HAVE NO MEANS WITH WHICH TO FAMILIARIZE MYSELF WITH EYW; THEN TO USE IT AS AN ALTERNATE; IN MY MIND; IS IN VIOLATION WITH THAT PART. REGARDLESS OF LEGALITY; ISN'T THE DISPATCHER'S RESPONSIBILITY TO PROVIDE ME WITH INFO (IE; ETOPS ALTERNATES) THAT I CAN USE? HE SAYS 'PET' INFO IS JUST THAT -- INFO. WELL; UNLESS I HAVE APCH PLATES AND RWY INFO; IT IS USELESS INFO! AND IS NOT JUST INFO. IT IS AN ALTERNATE; AND AN UNLISTED ONE AT THAT. EVEN IF I'M ON FIRE; AND ESPECIALLY IF I'VE LOST AN ENG; I NEED ALL THE EXTERNAL HELP I CAN GET TO GUIDE THE JET TO A SAFE LNDG; AND THAT MEANS APCH PLATES AND RWY INFO; PARTICULARLY IF AN ADEQUATE ARPT IS VERY NEARBY. THIS DISPATCHER'S GLIB RESPONSES TO WHAT I CONSIDER REASONABLE QUESTIONING OF A POLICY THAT IS EITHER NOT BEING FOLLOWED; OR THAT DOESN'T ADEQUATELY ADDRESS THE NEEDS OF THE PLT WAS DISTURBING TO ME. IF WE DON'T PRESENTLY HAVE A POLICY THAT ONLINE ARPTS AS DEFINED IN THE FOM SHOULD BE THE ONLY ARPTS REFED ON A FLT PLAN; THEN WE SHOULD CERTAINLY MAKE IT POLICY. I PRINTED ALL OF THIS DISPATCHER'S RESPONSES TO MY QUERIES IF YOU SHOULD BE INTERESTED AND; OF COURSE; HE SIGNED THEM ALL.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of January 2009 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.