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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 653502 |
Time | |
Date | 200504 |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : lax.airport |
State Reference | CA |
Altitude | msl single value : 3000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tower : lax.tower |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | B737-300 |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | descent : approach |
Route In Use | approach : visual |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 45 flight time total : 10000 flight time type : 7000 |
ASRS Report | 653507 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 180 flight time total : 5000 flight time type : 2000 |
ASRS Report | 653503 |
Events | |
Anomaly | conflict : nmac other anomaly other spatial deviation |
Independent Detector | aircraft equipment : tcas other flight crewa other flight crewb |
Resolutory Action | flight crew : took evasive action |
Miss Distance | horizontal : 0 vertical : 200 |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | Airport Flight Crew Human Performance |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Narrative:
On approach to runway 24L lax; we were given a 170 KT to 7 mi final visual approach clearance and TA from approach and handed off to tower. Another carrier was on approach to runway 24R and was in sight slightly behind and to the right side on final. They appeared to be racing us to the field; which I understand is common practice and the reason for this report. We received a TCASII RA several times forcing us off course and descending below GS to satisfy the required maneuver. On short final and tower frequency; I finally told tower we were getting a TCASII RA from the aircraft next to us and they appeared to be lined up on our runway. The tower asked what our intentions were; and I replied we would like to land on our runway 24L without having to nudge the other aircraft over. At the time we were well left of the runway and even left of the taxiway. About this time the other carrier aircraft states they are 'sidestepping over as well' and seemed to slow and fall behind us and out of the way. We adjusted and landed runway 24L. As we cleared the runway; the first officer flying remarked to tower that the other carrier appeared to be lined up on the wrong runway. The tower replied they were ok and had acknowledged the correct runway 24R in their clearance. The other carrier pilot then piped up and said they were right where they were supposed to be. I did not get the call sign; but ground held us for the other carrier to cross in front. Some former air carrier Y pilots have told me this is a favorite pastime to race the 'big guys' to the field. With TCASII compliance being so important and mandatory now; I think we need to bring this issue up before it needlessly causes expenses. In this case; I honestly believe they were lined up on the wrong runway; or at least well left of course since they admitted to correcting back to course (sidestepping). I will file this as an irregularity report also. Supplemental information from acn 653503: on GS and localizer at around 2500 ft AGL we received an RA. TCASII was on 5 NM rings; and showed aircraft right on top of us at +200 ft. RA commanded a 1200 FPM descent and we deviated from our clearance to comply.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: B737 FLT CREW IS FORCED TO OFFSET FOR LAX RWY 24L WHEN PARALLEL TFC FOR RWY 24R DRIFTED S OF COURSE AND CAUSED TCASII RA.
Narrative: ON APCH TO RWY 24L LAX; WE WERE GIVEN A 170 KT TO 7 MI FINAL VISUAL APCH CLRNC AND TA FROM APCH AND HANDED OFF TO TWR. ANOTHER CARRIER WAS ON APCH TO RWY 24R AND WAS IN SIGHT SLIGHTLY BEHIND AND TO THE R SIDE ON FINAL. THEY APPEARED TO BE RACING US TO THE FIELD; WHICH I UNDERSTAND IS COMMON PRACTICE AND THE REASON FOR THIS RPT. WE RECEIVED A TCASII RA SEVERAL TIMES FORCING US OFF COURSE AND DSNDING BELOW GS TO SATISFY THE REQUIRED MANEUVER. ON SHORT FINAL AND TWR FREQ; I FINALLY TOLD TWR WE WERE GETTING A TCASII RA FROM THE ACFT NEXT TO US AND THEY APPEARED TO BE LINED UP ON OUR RWY. THE TWR ASKED WHAT OUR INTENTIONS WERE; AND I REPLIED WE WOULD LIKE TO LAND ON OUR RWY 24L WITHOUT HAVING TO NUDGE THE OTHER ACFT OVER. AT THE TIME WE WERE WELL L OF THE RWY AND EVEN L OF THE TXWY. ABOUT THIS TIME THE OTHER CARRIER ACFT STATES THEY ARE 'SIDESTEPPING OVER AS WELL' AND SEEMED TO SLOW AND FALL BEHIND US AND OUT OF THE WAY. WE ADJUSTED AND LANDED RWY 24L. AS WE CLRED THE RWY; THE FO FLYING REMARKED TO TWR THAT THE OTHER CARRIER APPEARED TO BE LINED UP ON THE WRONG RWY. THE TWR REPLIED THEY WERE OK AND HAD ACKNOWLEDGED THE CORRECT RWY 24R IN THEIR CLRNC. THE OTHER CARRIER PLT THEN PIPED UP AND SAID THEY WERE RIGHT WHERE THEY WERE SUPPOSED TO BE. I DID NOT GET THE CALL SIGN; BUT GND HELD US FOR THE OTHER CARRIER TO CROSS IN FRONT. SOME FORMER ACR Y PLTS HAVE TOLD ME THIS IS A FAVORITE PASTIME TO RACE THE 'BIG GUYS' TO THE FIELD. WITH TCASII COMPLIANCE BEING SO IMPORTANT AND MANDATORY NOW; I THINK WE NEED TO BRING THIS ISSUE UP BEFORE IT NEEDLESSLY CAUSES EXPENSES. IN THIS CASE; I HONESTLY BELIEVE THEY WERE LINED UP ON THE WRONG RWY; OR AT LEAST WELL L OF COURSE SINCE THEY ADMITTED TO CORRECTING BACK TO COURSE (SIDESTEPPING). I WILL FILE THIS AS AN IRREGULARITY RPT ALSO. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 653503: ON GS AND LOC AT AROUND 2500 FT AGL WE RECEIVED AN RA. TCASII WAS ON 5 NM RINGS; AND SHOWED ACFT RIGHT ON TOP OF US AT +200 FT. RA COMMANDED A 1200 FPM DSCNT AND WE DEVIATED FROM OUR CLRNC TO COMPLY.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of January 2009 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.