37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 656741 |
Time | |
Date | 200505 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : lax.airport |
State Reference | CA |
Altitude | msl single value : 1600 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | Marginal |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tower : lax.tower tower : mht.tower |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | A320 |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Navigation In Use | ils localizer & glide slope : 24r |
Flight Phase | descent : approach |
Route In Use | arrival star : pd2 |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Controlling Facilities | tower : lax.tower |
Make Model Name | B767 Undifferentiated or Other Model |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | descent : approach |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 160 flight time total : 18000 flight time type : 810 |
ASRS Report | 656741 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Events | |
Anomaly | conflict : airborne less severe inflight encounter : weather non adherence : required legal separation |
Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | none taken : anomaly accepted |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | ATC Human Performance Weather |
Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Narrative:
On pdz 4 arrival; cleared direct mitts for ILS runway 24R. Slowed and sped up several times by socal approach controller trying to deal with heavy arrival flow. Initially slowed to sequence behind heavy B767; then speed to sequence ahead; then they cleared him for a visual runway 24L and instructed us to report airport in sight. Initially cleared to 4000 ft; then 3500 ft inbound on localizer. Then cleared to 2500 ft; got ground contact about 3000 ft and reported same and had brief visual on B767 going to runway 24L; cleared visual runway 24R. Then flew into hard IMC at 1600 ft and requested ILS runway 24R and was initially reclred ILS runway 24R when monitor broke in and asked if we had visual. Just then; broke out at about 1100 ft and reported same and was reclred for visual runway 24R. Landed normally as B767 was heard to tell controller that visual approach wasn't a good idea. I'm not sure if we ever had legal IFR separation; but in retrospect; I probably should have flown a missed approach. Situation was aggravated by congested local frequency and was probably a result of approach control trying to maximize inbound arrival rate -- which is a wonderful thing unless you are in the clouds.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: A320 INBOUND TO LAX FOR APCH TO RWY 24R QUESTIONED ATC'S USE OF VISUAL APCH PROC DURING DETERIORATING WX CONDITIONS.
Narrative: ON PDZ 4 ARR; CLRED DIRECT MITTS FOR ILS RWY 24R. SLOWED AND SPED UP SEVERAL TIMES BY SOCAL APCH CTLR TRYING TO DEAL WITH HVY ARR FLOW. INITIALLY SLOWED TO SEQUENCE BEHIND HVY B767; THEN SPD TO SEQUENCE AHEAD; THEN THEY CLRED HIM FOR A VISUAL RWY 24L AND INSTRUCTED US TO RPT ARPT IN SIGHT. INITIALLY CLRED TO 4000 FT; THEN 3500 FT INBOUND ON LOC. THEN CLRED TO 2500 FT; GOT GND CONTACT ABOUT 3000 FT AND RPTED SAME AND HAD BRIEF VISUAL ON B767 GOING TO RWY 24L; CLRED VISUAL RWY 24R. THEN FLEW INTO HARD IMC AT 1600 FT AND REQUESTED ILS RWY 24R AND WAS INITIALLY RECLRED ILS RWY 24R WHEN MONITOR BROKE IN AND ASKED IF WE HAD VISUAL. JUST THEN; BROKE OUT AT ABOUT 1100 FT AND RPTED SAME AND WAS RECLRED FOR VISUAL RWY 24R. LANDED NORMALLY AS B767 WAS HEARD TO TELL CTLR THAT VISUAL APCH WASN'T A GOOD IDEA. I'M NOT SURE IF WE EVER HAD LEGAL IFR SEPARATION; BUT IN RETROSPECT; I PROBABLY SHOULD HAVE FLOWN A MISSED APCH. SIT WAS AGGRAVATED BY CONGESTED LCL FREQ AND WAS PROBABLY A RESULT OF APCH CTL TRYING TO MAXIMIZE INBOUND ARR RATE -- WHICH IS A WONDERFUL THING UNLESS YOU ARE IN THE CLOUDS.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of January 2009 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.