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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 657826 |
Time | |
Date | 200505 |
Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : teb.airport |
State Reference | NJ |
Altitude | msl single value : 1500 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : n90.tracon |
Operator | common carrier : air taxi |
Make Model Name | Gulfstream IV |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 135 |
Flight Phase | climbout : initial climbout : takeoff |
Route In Use | departure sid : teb 5 |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air taxi |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 50 flight time total : 4500 flight time type : 50 |
ASRS Report | 657826 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air taxi |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Events | |
Anomaly | airspace violation : entry altitude deviation : excursion from assigned altitude altitude deviation : crossing restriction not met non adherence : published procedure non adherence : clearance non adherence : far |
Independent Detector | other controllera |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued alert flight crew : returned to assigned altitude |
Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | ATC Human Performance Flight Crew Human Performance |
Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Situations | |
Chart | airport : teb.airport sid : teterboro |
Narrative:
On departure from runway 24 at teb; on the teb 5 departure; the departure controller really let us have it about not climbing above 1500 ft MSL as the SID requires. This is interesting because he started his tirade while we were still only at 1400 ft MSL. Stunned by the yelling on the radio; I did level off at 1600 ft MSL; and promptly returned to the assigned 1500 ft MSL. While I completely understand the importance of this restr (ewr arrival traffic) I feel getting a lecture on the subject during a critical phase of flight was totally unsafe. The PNF and I were both so stunned that we had a hard time knowing what to do next. It was as if someone had slapped me across the face. Again; compliance with the procedure is paramount. The controller's statement about 'you teb pilots...' leads me to believe excursions occur. Let's not compound the situation with threats of 'I'll violate you if you climb....' I recommend pilots and controllers continue to work together to refine procedures in this congested area. Callback conversation with reporter revealed the following information: the reporter stressed his understanding of the controller's concerns. His intention was to draw attention to the shortcomings of the procedure. The fear of violations of ewr airspace that causes such reactions from controllers when they suspect a deviation is about to occur. He feels strongly that the lack of line selectable departures; with their inherent protections for altitude restrs and ease of flight path control; is a primary source of the repeated violations that have resulted in ATC's understandable hair trigger.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: PLT OF GIV RPTS THAT DEP CTLR VEHEMENTLY ANTICIPATED A FAILURE TO LEVEL AT 1500 FT MSL PER THE TEB DEP. RPTR ADVISES ATC SEEMS SPRING LOADED TO POSSIBLE AIRSPACE VIOLATIONS DUE TO RECURRING FAILURES TO COMPLY WITH THE DEP RESTRS.
Narrative: ON DEP FROM RWY 24 AT TEB; ON THE TEB 5 DEP; THE DEP CTLR REALLY LET US HAVE IT ABOUT NOT CLBING ABOVE 1500 FT MSL AS THE SID REQUIRES. THIS IS INTERESTING BECAUSE HE STARTED HIS TIRADE WHILE WE WERE STILL ONLY AT 1400 FT MSL. STUNNED BY THE YELLING ON THE RADIO; I DID LEVEL OFF AT 1600 FT MSL; AND PROMPTLY RETURNED TO THE ASSIGNED 1500 FT MSL. WHILE I COMPLETELY UNDERSTAND THE IMPORTANCE OF THIS RESTR (EWR ARR TFC) I FEEL GETTING A LECTURE ON THE SUBJECT DURING A CRITICAL PHASE OF FLT WAS TOTALLY UNSAFE. THE PNF AND I WERE BOTH SO STUNNED THAT WE HAD A HARD TIME KNOWING WHAT TO DO NEXT. IT WAS AS IF SOMEONE HAD SLAPPED ME ACROSS THE FACE. AGAIN; COMPLIANCE WITH THE PROC IS PARAMOUNT. THE CTLR'S STATEMENT ABOUT 'YOU TEB PLTS...' LEADS ME TO BELIEVE EXCURSIONS OCCUR. LET'S NOT COMPOUND THE SIT WITH THREATS OF 'I'LL VIOLATE YOU IF YOU CLB....' I RECOMMEND PLTS AND CTLRS CONTINUE TO WORK TOGETHER TO REFINE PROCS IN THIS CONGESTED AREA. CALLBACK CONVERSATION WITH RPTR REVEALED THE FOLLOWING INFO: THE RPTR STRESSED HIS UNDERSTANDING OF THE CTLR'S CONCERNS. HIS INTENTION WAS TO DRAW ATTENTION TO THE SHORTCOMINGS OF THE PROC. THE FEAR OF VIOLATIONS OF EWR AIRSPACE THAT CAUSES SUCH REACTIONS FROM CTLRS WHEN THEY SUSPECT A DEVIATION IS ABOUT TO OCCUR. HE FEELS STRONGLY THAT THE LACK OF LINE SELECTABLE DEPS; WITH THEIR INHERENT PROTECTIONS FOR ALT RESTRS AND EASE OF FLT PATH CTL; IS A PRIMARY SOURCE OF THE REPEATED VIOLATIONS THAT HAVE RESULTED IN ATC'S UNDERSTANDABLE HAIR TRIGGER.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of January 2009 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.