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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 659212 |
Time | |
Date | 200505 |
Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | atc facility : zkc.artcc |
State Reference | KS |
Altitude | msl single value : 22000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | artcc : zkc.artcc |
Operator | general aviation : personal |
Make Model Name | Military Trainer |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 91 |
Flight Phase | cruise : level |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | other |
Function | flight crew : single pilot |
Qualification | pilot : commercial pilot : multi engine |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 30 flight time total : 2000 flight time type : 50 |
ASRS Report | 659212 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | government : faa |
Function | controller : radar |
Events | |
Anomaly | other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | none taken : anomaly accepted |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | ATC Human Performance |
Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Narrative:
An initial IFR flight plan was filed from lzu to pgr for 2 L39 albatross jets that would be flying in formation en route to a wkend event. The flight plan for 2 was accepted by the macon FSS. 2 additional flight plans were filed from pgr to swo and swo to ama. One of the L39's had mechanical issues at lzu and I departed for pgr single ship. I picked up the clearance and departed IFR (in VFR conditions) to climb to FL220. En route; I had to amend the destination to arg because pgr had a fuel pump or truck issue. The other L39 rejoined us at arg; and flight plans were amended and IFR clrncs picked up in the air en route to swo. At this time; there may have been confusion as to the resumption of the flight as a flight of 2 aircraft. At one point; ATC asked if we were still a flight of 2 and then stated they could not give us IFR clearance any longer as a flight of 2 as civilians (versus military?). We were at FL220 and were in VFR. We descended below FL180 and continued the flight VFR with flight following. I had been advised by other ex- and current military pilots that formation IFR was acceptable to ATC. There appeared to be confusion with ATC as well on this issue. There were no safety issues on this flight; but could have been. I should have thought about the issues of IFR formation flight further; but the VFR conditions and a desire to 'save gas' at FL220 and ATC and the FSS acceptance of the flight plans seemed to override my judgement. We'll stick with VFR formation below FL180 in the future!
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: L39 PLT CHRONICLES CONFUSION WITH ATC REGARDING IFR FORMATION FLT LIMITATIONS.
Narrative: AN INITIAL IFR FLT PLAN WAS FILED FROM LZU TO PGR FOR 2 L39 ALBATROSS JETS THAT WOULD BE FLYING IN FORMATION ENRTE TO A WKEND EVENT. THE FLT PLAN FOR 2 WAS ACCEPTED BY THE MACON FSS. 2 ADDITIONAL FLT PLANS WERE FILED FROM PGR TO SWO AND SWO TO AMA. ONE OF THE L39'S HAD MECHANICAL ISSUES AT LZU AND I DEPARTED FOR PGR SINGLE SHIP. I PICKED UP THE CLRNC AND DEPARTED IFR (IN VFR CONDITIONS) TO CLB TO FL220. ENRTE; I HAD TO AMEND THE DEST TO ARG BECAUSE PGR HAD A FUEL PUMP OR TRUCK ISSUE. THE OTHER L39 REJOINED US AT ARG; AND FLT PLANS WERE AMENDED AND IFR CLRNCS PICKED UP IN THE AIR ENRTE TO SWO. AT THIS TIME; THERE MAY HAVE BEEN CONFUSION AS TO THE RESUMPTION OF THE FLT AS A FLT OF 2 ACFT. AT ONE POINT; ATC ASKED IF WE WERE STILL A FLT OF 2 AND THEN STATED THEY COULD NOT GIVE US IFR CLRNC ANY LONGER AS A FLT OF 2 AS CIVILIANS (VERSUS MIL?). WE WERE AT FL220 AND WERE IN VFR. WE DSNDED BELOW FL180 AND CONTINUED THE FLT VFR WITH FLT FOLLOWING. I HAD BEEN ADVISED BY OTHER EX- AND CURRENT MIL PLTS THAT FORMATION IFR WAS ACCEPTABLE TO ATC. THERE APPEARED TO BE CONFUSION WITH ATC AS WELL ON THIS ISSUE. THERE WERE NO SAFETY ISSUES ON THIS FLT; BUT COULD HAVE BEEN. I SHOULD HAVE THOUGHT ABOUT THE ISSUES OF IFR FORMATION FLT FURTHER; BUT THE VFR CONDITIONS AND A DESIRE TO 'SAVE GAS' AT FL220 AND ATC AND THE FSS ACCEPTANCE OF THE FLT PLANS SEEMED TO OVERRIDE MY JUDGEMENT. WE'LL STICK WITH VFR FORMATION BELOW FL180 IN THE FUTURE!
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of January 2009 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.