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A B757 crew at bos did not receive pushback clearance from an air carrier ramp control and are advised by ATC ground control of the omission.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 663454 |
| Time | |
| Date | 200507 |
| Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | airport : bos.airport |
| State Reference | MA |
| Altitude | agl single value : 0 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | VMC |
| Light | Daylight |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | B757 Undifferentiated or Other Model |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Flight Phase | ground : pushback ground : taxi |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : atp pilot : flight engineer pilot : instrument pilot : multi engine pilot : commercial |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 210 flight time total : 24500 flight time type : 2000 |
| ASRS Report | 663454 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | conflict : ground less severe non adherence : company policies non adherence : published procedure non adherence other |
| Independent Detector | other controllera |
| Resolutory Action | controller : issued advisory |
| Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
| Supplementary | |
| Problem Areas | ATC Human Performance Airport Chart Or Publication Company Flight Crew Human Performance |
| Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Narrative:
Prior to pushback off gate in bos; I asked the first officer if we had been 'cleared' to push. He replied yes. Noticing we were not on air carrier's ramp control frequency; I asked if ramp control approved the push. The first officer stated that was not required. Bos clearance approved push and we were to contact ground at spot X. Again; I restated; 'are you sure we don't have to contact air carrier ramp?' to which the first officer replied yes. He said we only needed to contact them inbound. With 3 confirmations from the first officer that we could push; we did. At spot X we contacted ground. Bos ground cleared us to taxi via taxiway K; hold short of taxiway K3. As I taxied on taxiway K; ground control informed us we should have contacted air carrier ramp prior to pushing. Now the first officer got into a conversation with ground control regarding the proper procedure; which happened to be printed in our charts; albeit obscurely placed. With all this chatter; and ground control conversing to other aircraft; and my first officer's inquiry; I believe we were cleared to continue on taxiway K to runway 15R. Once at runway 15R we followed a small bizjet for takeoff. Remainder of flight uneventful -- no conflicts. Having a 21 yr first officer; formerly a captain for 15 yrs; leads one not to question nor micro-manage. One must at some point rely that what is said by them is correct -- or should one? After 3 attempts questioning what turned out to be bad information from the first officer; I decided to accept what he was saying to me as accurate. He firmly believed in what he told me; yet I felt leery about his answer. Not wanting to insult; nor come across as showing disregard for what this experienced first officer was telling me; I became lulled into going down the wrong path. Never before has the airline industry experienced such historic seniority/experience in 'both' seats. On one hand; such seniority/experience in both seats offers numerous advantages; yet lurking within this environment are serious disadvantage.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: A B757 CREW AT BOS DID NOT RECEIVE PUSHBACK CLRNC FROM AN ACR RAMP CTL AND ARE ADVISED BY ATC GND CTL OF THE OMISSION.
Narrative: PRIOR TO PUSHBACK OFF GATE IN BOS; I ASKED THE FO IF WE HAD BEEN 'CLRED' TO PUSH. HE REPLIED YES. NOTICING WE WERE NOT ON ACR'S RAMP CTL FREQ; I ASKED IF RAMP CTL APPROVED THE PUSH. THE FO STATED THAT WAS NOT REQUIRED. BOS CLRNC APPROVED PUSH AND WE WERE TO CONTACT GND AT SPOT X. AGAIN; I RESTATED; 'ARE YOU SURE WE DON'T HAVE TO CONTACT ACR RAMP?' TO WHICH THE FO REPLIED YES. HE SAID WE ONLY NEEDED TO CONTACT THEM INBOUND. WITH 3 CONFIRMATIONS FROM THE FO THAT WE COULD PUSH; WE DID. AT SPOT X WE CONTACTED GND. BOS GND CLRED US TO TAXI VIA TXWY K; HOLD SHORT OF TXWY K3. AS I TAXIED ON TXWY K; GND CTL INFORMED US WE SHOULD HAVE CONTACTED ACR RAMP PRIOR TO PUSHING. NOW THE FO GOT INTO A CONVERSATION WITH GND CTL REGARDING THE PROPER PROC; WHICH HAPPENED TO BE PRINTED IN OUR CHARTS; ALBEIT OBSCURELY PLACED. WITH ALL THIS CHATTER; AND GND CTL CONVERSING TO OTHER ACFT; AND MY FO'S INQUIRY; I BELIEVE WE WERE CLRED TO CONTINUE ON TXWY K TO RWY 15R. ONCE AT RWY 15R WE FOLLOWED A SMALL BIZJET FOR TKOF. REMAINDER OF FLT UNEVENTFUL -- NO CONFLICTS. HAVING A 21 YR FO; FORMERLY A CAPT FOR 15 YRS; LEADS ONE NOT TO QUESTION NOR MICRO-MANAGE. ONE MUST AT SOME POINT RELY THAT WHAT IS SAID BY THEM IS CORRECT -- OR SHOULD ONE? AFTER 3 ATTEMPTS QUESTIONING WHAT TURNED OUT TO BE BAD INFO FROM THE FO; I DECIDED TO ACCEPT WHAT HE WAS SAYING TO ME AS ACCURATE. HE FIRMLY BELIEVED IN WHAT HE TOLD ME; YET I FELT LEERY ABOUT HIS ANSWER. NOT WANTING TO INSULT; NOR COME ACROSS AS SHOWING DISREGARD FOR WHAT THIS EXPERIENCED FO WAS TELLING ME; I BECAME LULLED INTO GOING DOWN THE WRONG PATH. NEVER BEFORE HAS THE AIRLINE INDUSTRY EXPERIENCED SUCH HISTORIC SENIORITY/EXPERIENCE IN 'BOTH' SEATS. ON ONE HAND; SUCH SENIORITY/EXPERIENCE IN BOTH SEATS OFFERS NUMEROUS ADVANTAGES; YET LURKING WITHIN THIS ENVIRONMENT ARE SERIOUS DISADVANTAGE.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of January 2009 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.