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Reporter notes that the msp runway 30L ILS uses an IAF identify with the same identify as a decommissioned NDB that was located 1 pt 1 DME different and the change is confusing pilots.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 681983 |
| Time | |
| Date | 200512 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | airport : msp.airport |
| State Reference | MN |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain observation : company check pilot oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : multi engine pilot : cfi pilot : commercial pilot : instrument |
| Experience | flight time total : 450 |
| ASRS Report | 681983 |
| Events | |
| Independent Detector | other other : 1 |
| Resolutory Action | none taken : unable |
| Supplementary | |
| Problem Areas | FAA ATC Facility Chart Or Publication |
| Primary Problem | FAA |
Narrative:
The most recent revision to the ILS runway 30L chart at msp has been very confusing for pilots. Let me explain. The old chart (dated aug/26/05; amendment 43A) has narco as the FAF at 5.7 DME; co-located with the narco NDB and OM. The new chart (dated oct/21/05; amendment 44A) has narco as the FAF at 6.8 DME. The OM and the NDB are no longer part of the procedure. The confusing part occurred because the old NDB and the new FAF are both named narco. The confusion could have been mitigated if the new FAF had a different name other than the old NDB. I instruct in the full motion simulators at a major airline. I have observed the pilots becoming confused after flying the actual approach in the simulator. We have discussed the confusion; and came to the conclusion that if the new approach fix had a different name there would be less uncertainty. Changing the narco name now would only cause more misunderstanding. However; to avoid further safety issues in the future; old intersection names (especially those located with an NDB) should not be used on any redesigned approach to avoid confusion at other airports.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: RPTR NOTES THAT THE MSP RWY 30L ILS USES AN IAF IDENT WITH THE SAME IDENT AS A DECOMMISSIONED NDB THAT WAS LOCATED 1 PT 1 DME DIFFERENT AND THE CHANGE IS CONFUSING PLTS.
Narrative: THE MOST RECENT REVISION TO THE ILS RWY 30L CHART AT MSP HAS BEEN VERY CONFUSING FOR PLTS. LET ME EXPLAIN. THE OLD CHART (DATED AUG/26/05; AMENDMENT 43A) HAS NARCO AS THE FAF AT 5.7 DME; CO-LOCATED WITH THE NARCO NDB AND OM. THE NEW CHART (DATED OCT/21/05; AMENDMENT 44A) HAS NARCO AS THE FAF AT 6.8 DME. THE OM AND THE NDB ARE NO LONGER PART OF THE PROC. THE CONFUSING PART OCCURRED BECAUSE THE OLD NDB AND THE NEW FAF ARE BOTH NAMED NARCO. THE CONFUSION COULD HAVE BEEN MITIGATED IF THE NEW FAF HAD A DIFFERENT NAME OTHER THAN THE OLD NDB. I INSTRUCT IN THE FULL MOTION SIMULATORS AT A MAJOR AIRLINE. I HAVE OBSERVED THE PLTS BECOMING CONFUSED AFTER FLYING THE ACTUAL APCH IN THE SIMULATOR. WE HAVE DISCUSSED THE CONFUSION; AND CAME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT IF THE NEW APCH FIX HAD A DIFFERENT NAME THERE WOULD BE LESS UNCERTAINTY. CHANGING THE NARCO NAME NOW WOULD ONLY CAUSE MORE MISUNDERSTANDING. HOWEVER; TO AVOID FURTHER SAFETY ISSUES IN THE FUTURE; OLD INTXN NAMES (ESPECIALLY THOSE LOCATED WITH AN NDB) SHOULD NOT BE USED ON ANY REDESIGNED APCH TO AVOID CONFUSION AT OTHER ARPTS.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of January 2009 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.