37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 697728 |
Time | |
Date | 200605 |
Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : jfk.airport |
State Reference | NY |
Altitude | msl single value : 5000 |
Environment | |
Weather Elements | Thunderstorm |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : n90.tracon tower : jfk.tower tower : sfo.tower |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | B767-300 and 300 ER |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Navigation In Use | other |
Flight Phase | climbout : initial |
Route In Use | departure sid : bette 3 |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
ASRS Report | 697728 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
ASRS Report | 697729 |
Events | |
Anomaly | inflight encounter : weather |
Independent Detector | other flight crewa other flight crewb other other : 3 |
Resolutory Action | flight crew : took precautionary avoidance action |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | Weather ATC Human Performance |
Primary Problem | Weather |
Narrative:
With thunderstorms and lightning in the area and just south of jfk; we departed on the BETTE3 ack transition on a canarsi climb. After the initial turn to canarsi and climbing through 3000 ft; ATC instructed us to turn left to 180 degrees directly into a thunderstorm. We answered with unable due to WX. After a short diatribe about all his traffic and all the other aircraft that had gone through what the controller called 'only level 1 WX;' we were instructed to descend to 2000 ft and asked 'when can we turn left?' we responded with 'in about 10 mi.' this was followed by a long diatribe questioning everything from our experience and flying ability to our motives. Regardless of the ATC instructions I'm not going to fly into a known thunderstorm. Supplemental information from acn 697729: a heading of 180 degrees which would have gone directly into the cell; we responded 'unable' requesting present heading to avoid thunderstorm; ATC approved and said 'advise when able to turn left.' we indicated from the HSI it would be approximately 10 NM; which changed the controller's tenor quickly regarding conflict with lga arrival traffic/airspace; again we were asked if we could turn left; and while climbing through 3400 ft told to 'maintain 2000 ft' for helicopter traffic at 12 O'clock position; and issued a rather lengthy dissertation on the radio regarding his airspace constraints surrounding the new york area; lga's airspace; and whether it was our first trip out of jfk. New york departure control stated earlier; 'we are only showing level 1 WX; and a whole lot of other aircraft have gone that way before you;' also on tower frequency during our takeoff roll; another aircraft was inquiring why all the planes were turning left into that cell. Supplemental information from acn 697730: once clear of the cell we were able to accept the clearance of 080 degrees and climb to 7000 ft. Both captain and first officer handled the situation expertly and safely.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: B767 FLT CREW WITH N90 REFUSED VECTOR HDGS DURING DEP FROM JFK BECAUSE OF TSTM ACTIVITY.
Narrative: WITH TSTMS AND LIGHTNING IN THE AREA AND JUST S OF JFK; WE DEPARTED ON THE BETTE3 ACK TRANSITION ON A CANARSI CLB. AFTER THE INITIAL TURN TO CANARSI AND CLBING THROUGH 3000 FT; ATC INSTRUCTED US TO TURN L TO 180 DEGS DIRECTLY INTO A TSTM. WE ANSWERED WITH UNABLE DUE TO WX. AFTER A SHORT DIATRIBE ABOUT ALL HIS TFC AND ALL THE OTHER ACFT THAT HAD GONE THROUGH WHAT THE CTLR CALLED 'ONLY LEVEL 1 WX;' WE WERE INSTRUCTED TO DSND TO 2000 FT AND ASKED 'WHEN CAN WE TURN L?' WE RESPONDED WITH 'IN ABOUT 10 MI.' THIS WAS FOLLOWED BY A LONG DIATRIBE QUESTIONING EVERYTHING FROM OUR EXPERIENCE AND FLYING ABILITY TO OUR MOTIVES. REGARDLESS OF THE ATC INSTRUCTIONS I'M NOT GOING TO FLY INTO A KNOWN TSTM. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 697729: A HDG OF 180 DEGS WHICH WOULD HAVE GONE DIRECTLY INTO THE CELL; WE RESPONDED 'UNABLE' REQUESTING PRESENT HDG TO AVOID TSTM; ATC APPROVED AND SAID 'ADVISE WHEN ABLE TO TURN L.' WE INDICATED FROM THE HSI IT WOULD BE APPROX 10 NM; WHICH CHANGED THE CTLR'S TENOR QUICKLY REGARDING CONFLICT WITH LGA ARR TFC/AIRSPACE; AGAIN WE WERE ASKED IF WE COULD TURN L; AND WHILE CLBING THROUGH 3400 FT TOLD TO 'MAINTAIN 2000 FT' FOR HELI TFC AT 12 O'CLOCK POS; AND ISSUED A RATHER LENGTHY DISSERTATION ON THE RADIO REGARDING HIS AIRSPACE CONSTRAINTS SURROUNDING THE NEW YORK AREA; LGA'S AIRSPACE; AND WHETHER IT WAS OUR FIRST TRIP OUT OF JFK. NEW YORK DEP CTL STATED EARLIER; 'WE ARE ONLY SHOWING LEVEL 1 WX; AND A WHOLE LOT OF OTHER ACFT HAVE GONE THAT WAY BEFORE YOU;' ALSO ON TWR FREQ DURING OUR TKOF ROLL; ANOTHER ACFT WAS INQUIRING WHY ALL THE PLANES WERE TURNING L INTO THAT CELL. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 697730: ONCE CLR OF THE CELL WE WERE ABLE TO ACCEPT THE CLRNC OF 080 DEGS AND CLB TO 7000 FT. BOTH CAPT AND FO HANDLED THE SIT EXPERTLY AND SAFELY.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of January 2009 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.