37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 699293 |
Time | |
Date | 200606 |
Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : yip.airport |
State Reference | MI |
Altitude | agl single value : 300 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tower : yip.tower |
Operator | common carrier : air taxi |
Make Model Name | Citation II S2/Bravo |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 135 |
Flight Phase | descent : approach |
Route In Use | approach : visual |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Controlling Facilities | tower : yip.tower |
Make Model Name | Helicopter |
Flight Phase | descent : approach |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : charter |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : cfi pilot : multi engine pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 45 flight time total : 5000 flight time type : 1200 |
ASRS Report | 699293 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : charter |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Events | |
Anomaly | conflict : airborne critical non adherence : required legal separation |
Independent Detector | other flight crewa other flight crewb |
Resolutory Action | none taken : detected after the fact |
Miss Distance | horizontal : 1000 vertical : 200 |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | Aircraft ATC Human Performance Flight Crew Human Performance |
Primary Problem | Ambiguous |
Narrative:
We had been cleared for a visual approach to runway 5R at yip. Upon contacting the tower; we requested runway 9R. We were told that it was a little busy; but we should square our base turn to final so that you are kind of on a right base. I questioned the 'right base' statement as we were inbound from the north; already on a left base for runway 9R (or runway 5R with a slight turn); by asking if he meant a 'left' base. He repeated that we should 'square our turn to final so that it would almost be as if we were on a right base.' (after the fact; I am guessing that he meant for us to delay our turn so long we actually went through the final and had to turn back to re-join.) the PF and I started to discuss the instruction. As we continued; prior to reaching a point where we would have turned a delayed final; the controller cleared us to land on runway 9R. He also made mention of a helicopter on final for runway 5R. We did not see one; and never said we had one in sight. The turn we made to final was 'squared' but not to the point of needing to turn back. On short final; we finally saw the helicopter; which passed in front of and above us for runway 5R. I don't know if any 'official' loss of separation occurred; but it was closer than I had ever been to another aircraft.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: CE550 FLT CREW IS ADVISED OF CLOSE HELI TFC ON APCH TO YIP.
Narrative: WE HAD BEEN CLRED FOR A VISUAL APCH TO RWY 5R AT YIP. UPON CONTACTING THE TWR; WE REQUESTED RWY 9R. WE WERE TOLD THAT IT WAS A LITTLE BUSY; BUT WE SHOULD SQUARE OUR BASE TURN TO FINAL SO THAT YOU ARE KIND OF ON A R BASE. I QUESTIONED THE 'R BASE' STATEMENT AS WE WERE INBOUND FROM THE N; ALREADY ON A L BASE FOR RWY 9R (OR RWY 5R WITH A SLIGHT TURN); BY ASKING IF HE MEANT A 'L' BASE. HE REPEATED THAT WE SHOULD 'SQUARE OUR TURN TO FINAL SO THAT IT WOULD ALMOST BE AS IF WE WERE ON A R BASE.' (AFTER THE FACT; I AM GUESSING THAT HE MEANT FOR US TO DELAY OUR TURN SO LONG WE ACTUALLY WENT THROUGH THE FINAL AND HAD TO TURN BACK TO RE-JOIN.) THE PF AND I STARTED TO DISCUSS THE INSTRUCTION. AS WE CONTINUED; PRIOR TO REACHING A POINT WHERE WE WOULD HAVE TURNED A DELAYED FINAL; THE CTLR CLRED US TO LAND ON RWY 9R. HE ALSO MADE MENTION OF A HELI ON FINAL FOR RWY 5R. WE DID NOT SEE ONE; AND NEVER SAID WE HAD ONE IN SIGHT. THE TURN WE MADE TO FINAL WAS 'SQUARED' BUT NOT TO THE POINT OF NEEDING TO TURN BACK. ON SHORT FINAL; WE FINALLY SAW THE HELI; WHICH PASSED IN FRONT OF AND ABOVE US FOR RWY 5R. I DON'T KNOW IF ANY 'OFFICIAL' LOSS OF SEPARATION OCCURRED; BUT IT WAS CLOSER THAN I HAD EVER BEEN TO ANOTHER ACFT.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of January 2009 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.