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Attributes | |
ACN | 702951 |
Time | |
Date | 200607 |
Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : lgir.airport |
State Reference | FO |
Altitude | msl single value : 3000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | B757-200 |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Navigation In Use | other |
Flight Phase | climbout : initial |
Route In Use | departure sid : n/s |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : multi engine pilot : instrument pilot : flight engineer pilot : atp pilot : cfi |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 85 flight time total : 6800 flight time type : 200 |
ASRS Report | 702951 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Events | |
Anomaly | aircraft equipment problem : less severe non adherence : clearance non adherence : published procedure |
Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance flight crew : landed as precaution flight crew : diverted to another airport |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Narrative:
I was the PF so after preflight checks I turned the IRS to align and entered the aircraft location off of my airport diagram latitude/longitude position. I then attempted to enter our departure airport in the FMS. It would not enter and therefore we did not have the takeoff airport for reference. I have found this is not an unusual occurrence as we fly all over the world and most of the time either the takeoff or landing airport (or both) is not in the database. (This is very frustrating as it leads to the flight crew building waypoint after waypoint on very complicated european arrs mostly 100-200 mi out because we don't have ACARS and need to attain the ATIS before we know which arrival and runway is in use.) for the FMS to operate correctly it must have a takeoff airport therefore we try to find the closest (other) airport. Sometimes this can be almost 1000 mi away and very close to our destination. I found rome to be the closest airport. This then causes the FMS flight plan total mileage to be several hundred to a thousand mi off of the paper flight plan data. I have never had any official training on how the FMS works when you have to use a non-standard takeoff airport. During all our training in the simulator the FMS always had the airport we departed. So much of what I have learned of how it operates has been from practical experience on the line. At that point everything was finished up and we handed out our paperwork and told the cabin to close. We ran our checklists and started the engines. We received taxi clearance. Once on the parallel taxiway they called us to copy our clearance which I did. I briefed the departure and emergency procedures. I verified our V2 speed; heading; altitude and first fix from the FMS. We crossed a runway and after what was a very short taxi were given position and hold on the runway. I took the aircraft and proceeded to take off and fly the departure turning to an initial heading of 023 degrees to intercept a radial. When I looked at my navigation display I did not see the radial display. Therefore I knew I could not intercept in LNAV. I told the captain what I saw and informed her I was switching to raw data. Selecting VOR and tuning (already tuned) the radial. I flew the plane using raw data until we reached a safe altitude to begin troubleshooting. The captain reviewed the procedures manual and both aircraft volume 1 and 2 books and could find nothing to offer any guidance. The captain noticed the position did not appear correct in the FMS. After consideration if we could continue utilizing vors; we decide the safest option would be to return to heraklion. (Paris is very busy and many of our flight plan fixes were beyond service areas.) the captain briefed the flight attendants and made a passenger PA. However almost all the passenger were french and spoke no english. Many did not understand and we had no flight attendant who spoke french. We returned to heraklion using VOR radials and made a safe landing.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: CREW OF B757 DEPARTING FOREIGN ARPT NOT IN DATABASE; USE NONSTANDARD METHODS TO PROGRAM FMC AND ALIGN IRS'S. CAN'T FIND COURSE LINE AND RETURN TO DEP ARPT.
Narrative: I WAS THE PF SO AFTER PREFLT CHKS I TURNED THE IRS TO ALIGN AND ENTERED THE ACFT LOCATION OFF OF MY ARPT DIAGRAM LATITUDE/LONGITUDE POS. I THEN ATTEMPTED TO ENTER OUR DEP ARPT IN THE FMS. IT WOULD NOT ENTER AND THEREFORE WE DID NOT HAVE THE TKOF ARPT FOR REF. I HAVE FOUND THIS IS NOT AN UNUSUAL OCCURRENCE AS WE FLY ALL OVER THE WORLD AND MOST OF THE TIME EITHER THE TKOF OR LNDG ARPT (OR BOTH) IS NOT IN THE DATABASE. (THIS IS VERY FRUSTRATING AS IT LEADS TO THE FLT CREW BUILDING WAYPOINT AFTER WAYPOINT ON VERY COMPLICATED EUROPEAN ARRS MOSTLY 100-200 MI OUT BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE ACARS AND NEED TO ATTAIN THE ATIS BEFORE WE KNOW WHICH ARR AND RWY IS IN USE.) FOR THE FMS TO OPERATE CORRECTLY IT MUST HAVE A TKOF ARPT THEREFORE WE TRY TO FIND THE CLOSEST (OTHER) ARPT. SOMETIMES THIS CAN BE ALMOST 1000 MI AWAY AND VERY CLOSE TO OUR DEST. I FOUND ROME TO BE THE CLOSEST ARPT. THIS THEN CAUSES THE FMS FLT PLAN TOTAL MILEAGE TO BE SEVERAL HUNDRED TO A THOUSAND MI OFF OF THE PAPER FLT PLAN DATA. I HAVE NEVER HAD ANY OFFICIAL TRAINING ON HOW THE FMS WORKS WHEN YOU HAVE TO USE A NON-STANDARD TKOF ARPT. DURING ALL OUR TRAINING IN THE SIMULATOR THE FMS ALWAYS HAD THE ARPT WE DEPARTED. SO MUCH OF WHAT I HAVE LEARNED OF HOW IT OPERATES HAS BEEN FROM PRACTICAL EXPERIENCE ON THE LINE. AT THAT POINT EVERYTHING WAS FINISHED UP AND WE HANDED OUT OUR PAPERWORK AND TOLD THE CABIN TO CLOSE. WE RAN OUR CHKLISTS AND STARTED THE ENGS. WE RECEIVED TAXI CLRNC. ONCE ON THE PARALLEL TXWY THEY CALLED US TO COPY OUR CLRNC WHICH I DID. I BRIEFED THE DEP AND EMER PROCS. I VERIFIED OUR V2 SPD; HDG; ALT AND FIRST FIX FROM THE FMS. WE CROSSED A RWY AND AFTER WHAT WAS A VERY SHORT TAXI WERE GIVEN POS AND HOLD ON THE RWY. I TOOK THE ACFT AND PROCEEDED TO TAKE OFF AND FLY THE DEP TURNING TO AN INITIAL HDG OF 023 DEGS TO INTERCEPT A RADIAL. WHEN I LOOKED AT MY NAV DISPLAY I DID NOT SEE THE RADIAL DISPLAY. THEREFORE I KNEW I COULD NOT INTERCEPT IN LNAV. I TOLD THE CAPT WHAT I SAW AND INFORMED HER I WAS SWITCHING TO RAW DATA. SELECTING VOR AND TUNING (ALREADY TUNED) THE RADIAL. I FLEW THE PLANE USING RAW DATA UNTIL WE REACHED A SAFE ALT TO BEGIN TROUBLESHOOTING. THE CAPT REVIEWED THE PROCS MANUAL AND BOTH ACFT VOLUME 1 AND 2 BOOKS AND COULD FIND NOTHING TO OFFER ANY GUIDANCE. THE CAPT NOTICED THE POS DID NOT APPEAR CORRECT IN THE FMS. AFTER CONSIDERATION IF WE COULD CONTINUE UTILIZING VORS; WE DECIDE THE SAFEST OPTION WOULD BE TO RETURN TO HERAKLION. (PARIS IS VERY BUSY AND MANY OF OUR FLT PLAN FIXES WERE BEYOND SVC AREAS.) THE CAPT BRIEFED THE FLT ATTENDANTS AND MADE A PAX PA. HOWEVER ALMOST ALL THE PAX WERE FRENCH AND SPOKE NO ENGLISH. MANY DID NOT UNDERSTAND AND WE HAD NO FLT ATTENDANT WHO SPOKE FRENCH. WE RETURNED TO HERAKLION USING VOR RADIALS AND MADE A SAFE LNDG.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of January 2009 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.