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Attributes | |
ACN | 710577 |
Time | |
Date | 200609 |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | atc facility : n90.tracon |
State Reference | NY |
Altitude | msl single value : 14000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : n90.tracon |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | EMB ERJ 135 ER&LR |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Navigation In Use | other |
Flight Phase | descent : holding |
Route In Use | arrival star : korry |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 240 flight time type : 4000 |
ASRS Report | 710577 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Events | |
Anomaly | other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | none taken : anomaly accepted |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | Company |
Primary Problem | Company |
Narrative:
Korry 3 arrival to lga. Assigned holding at holey. Entered holding XA03Z with efc XA35Z. Contacted dispatch to advise of holding. Dispatch 'ran the numbers' and reported en route fuel from holey to lga of 271 pounds; 1900 pounds reserve; minimum fuel to depart holey for lga of 2171 pounds. With all due respect; an EMB145 cannot go 60 mi on 271 pounds of fuel unless it is in a steep descent or a hellacious tailwind. I asked dispatch to repeat the en route burn and they repeated 271 pounds. First officer and I discussed this and determined we would leave the hold either for lga or for a divert field at 2600 pounds. We were released from the hold at approximately XA20Z and flew to lga and landed without further delay. Actual en route burn from holey to landing was monitored by us and was 650 pounds. Fuel on board at landing was 3100 pounds. Had we relied on the obviously lowball en route burn given by dispatch; and had we left the hold at the issued minimum fuel of 2171 pounds; we would have landed with less than 1600 pounds of fuel. While the reserve is there to be used if needed; planning cannot provide for less than the 45 mins. Again; with all due respect; the calculated fuel burns are in the operations manual and I feel that had we relied on the figure given to us by dispatch and a delay had resulted in a fuel emergency; we as the crew would have been crucified.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: EMB145 CREW RPTS HIGHLY OPTIMISTIC FUEL CALCULATIONS BY COMPANY DISPATCHER WHILE HOLDING.
Narrative: KORRY 3 ARR TO LGA. ASSIGNED HOLDING AT HOLEY. ENTERED HOLDING XA03Z WITH EFC XA35Z. CONTACTED DISPATCH TO ADVISE OF HOLDING. DISPATCH 'RAN THE NUMBERS' AND RPTED ENRTE FUEL FROM HOLEY TO LGA OF 271 LBS; 1900 LBS RESERVE; MINIMUM FUEL TO DEPART HOLEY FOR LGA OF 2171 LBS. WITH ALL DUE RESPECT; AN EMB145 CANNOT GO 60 MI ON 271 LBS OF FUEL UNLESS IT IS IN A STEEP DSCNT OR A HELLACIOUS TAILWIND. I ASKED DISPATCH TO REPEAT THE ENRTE BURN AND THEY REPEATED 271 LBS. FO AND I DISCUSSED THIS AND DETERMINED WE WOULD LEAVE THE HOLD EITHER FOR LGA OR FOR A DIVERT FIELD AT 2600 LBS. WE WERE RELEASED FROM THE HOLD AT APPROX XA20Z AND FLEW TO LGA AND LANDED WITHOUT FURTHER DELAY. ACTUAL ENRTE BURN FROM HOLEY TO LNDG WAS MONITORED BY US AND WAS 650 LBS. FUEL ON BOARD AT LNDG WAS 3100 LBS. HAD WE RELIED ON THE OBVIOUSLY LOWBALL ENRTE BURN GIVEN BY DISPATCH; AND HAD WE LEFT THE HOLD AT THE ISSUED MINIMUM FUEL OF 2171 LBS; WE WOULD HAVE LANDED WITH LESS THAN 1600 LBS OF FUEL. WHILE THE RESERVE IS THERE TO BE USED IF NEEDED; PLANNING CANNOT PROVIDE FOR LESS THAN THE 45 MINS. AGAIN; WITH ALL DUE RESPECT; THE CALCULATED FUEL BURNS ARE IN THE OPS MANUAL AND I FEEL THAT HAD WE RELIED ON THE FIGURE GIVEN TO US BY DISPATCH AND A DELAY HAD RESULTED IN A FUEL EMER; WE AS THE CREW WOULD HAVE BEEN CRUCIFIED.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of January 2009 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.