37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 723116 |
Time | |
Date | 200701 |
Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : ont.airport |
State Reference | CA |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 7000 msl bound upper : 9000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Night |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : sct.tracon |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Commercial Fixed Wing |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Navigation In Use | other vortac |
Flight Phase | climbout : intermediate altitude |
Route In Use | departure sid : pom |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 65 flight time total : 15000 flight time type : 130 |
ASRS Report | 723116 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : atp pilot : flight engineer |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 50 flight time total : 4000 flight time type : 500 |
ASRS Report | 723331 |
Events | |
Anomaly | altitude deviation : overshoot altitude deviation : crossing restriction not met non adherence : clearance non adherence : far non adherence : published procedure |
Resolutory Action | none taken : detected after the fact |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | Chart Or Publication Flight Crew Human Performance |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Situations | |
Chart | sid : pom7 |
Narrative:
Missed altitude restr at pom on the pom 7 departure; gmn transition; at ont. First time at ont airport. The restr; 'pom maximum 7000 ft' is found on the SID pt page of commercial charts. New captain; hardly ever fly to the west coast. There is still a learning period utilizing commercial charts. These charts are not available for your review on layovers. In the future I will take more time reviewing the SID and SID pt for commercial charts. I also think a formal ground school training program should be made available for commercial charts.supplemental information from acn 723331: missed 7000 ft altitude restriction over pom while climbing out on pom 7 departure from ont. Socal called us at about 10000 ft to let us know we missed the restriction; however they did not have a problem with us. We were concentrating on making a 14000 ft minimum altitude and never caught the pom 7000 ft restriction. We had left approximately 8 hours prior. This included a four hour flight and a three hour ground time to an airport neither pilot had been to in at least five years. Commercial charts were used and we found them very confusing as ont charts are packed with too much information. The restriction is embedded in the verbiage in such a way as to make you think it doesn't apply. The restriction should be listed in the altitude block with the transition as it is in oak. Also on the plan view (map) the restriction sits out by itself abeam pom. After the incident we reviewed the charts and still found them to be almost unusable.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: A PLT RPTS OVERSHOOTING AN ONT POM 7 SID ALT RESTR BECAUSE HE WAS NEW TO THE ARPT AND THE COMMERCIAL CHART IN USE WAS CONFUSING.
Narrative: MISSED ALT RESTR AT POM ON THE POM 7 DEP; GMN TRANSITION; AT ONT. FIRST TIME AT ONT ARPT. THE RESTR; 'POM MAX 7000 FT' IS FOUND ON THE SID PT PAGE OF COMMERCIAL CHARTS. NEW CAPT; HARDLY EVER FLY TO THE WEST COAST. THERE IS STILL A LEARNING PERIOD UTILIZING COMMERCIAL CHARTS. THESE CHARTS ARE NOT AVAILABLE FOR YOUR REVIEW ON LAYOVERS. IN THE FUTURE I WILL TAKE MORE TIME REVIEWING THE SID AND SID PT FOR COMMERCIAL CHARTS. I ALSO THINK A FORMAL GROUND SCHOOL TRAINING PROGRAM SHOULD BE MADE AVAILABLE FOR COMMERCIAL CHARTS.SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 723331: MISSED 7000 FT ALTITUDE RESTRICTION OVER POM WHILE CLIMBING OUT ON POM 7 DEPARTURE FROM ONT. SOCAL CALLED US AT ABOUT 10000 FT TO LET US KNOW WE MISSED THE RESTRICTION; HOWEVER THEY DID NOT HAVE A PROBLEM WITH US. WE WERE CONCENTRATING ON MAKING A 14000 FT MINIMUM ALTITUDE AND NEVER CAUGHT THE POM 7000 FT RESTRICTION. WE HAD LEFT APPROX 8 HOURS PRIOR. THIS INCLUDED A FOUR HOUR FLT AND A THREE HOUR GROUND TIME TO AN ARPT NEITHER PILOT HAD BEEN TO IN AT LEAST FIVE YEARS. COMMERCIAL CHARTS WERE USED AND WE FOUND THEM VERY CONFUSING AS ONT CHARTS ARE PACKED WITH TOO MUCH INFO. THE RESTRICTION IS EMBEDDED IN THE VERBIAGE IN SUCH A WAY AS TO MAKE YOU THINK IT DOESN'T APPLY. THE RESTRICTION SHOULD BE LISTED IN THE ALTITUDE BLOCK WITH THE TRANSITION AS IT IS IN OAK. ALSO ON THE PLAN VIEW (MAP) THE RESTRICTION SITS OUT BY ITSELF ABEAM POM. AFTER THE INCIDENT WE REVIEWED THE CHARTS AND STILL FOUND THEM TO BE ALMOST UNUSABLE.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of January 2009 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.