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Air carrier pilot expressed frustration at ATC's failure to accommodate requested airspeed when exiting holding for landing at mke.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 724257 |
| Time | |
| Date | 200701 |
| Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | atc facility : mke.tracon |
| State Reference | WI |
| Altitude | msl single value : 3000 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | IMC |
| Weather Elements | Snow Ice |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | tracon : mke.tracon |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | Do 328 TJ (Turbojet) |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Flight Phase | descent : approach descent : holding |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : atp |
| ASRS Report | 724257 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | non adherence : clearance other anomaly other |
| Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
| Resolutory Action | none taken : anomaly accepted |
| Supplementary | |
| Problem Areas | ATC Human Performance Flight Crew Human Performance Weather Aircraft |
| Primary Problem | Ambiguous |
Narrative:
Because mke approach didn't want to accommodate a slightly faster speed from us; on our arrival in mke we were told that the aircraft were holding due to runway plowing; and expect to hold. We were assigned a hold at omoge runway 19R outer marker. After initially maintaining 210 KTS; due to moderate icing conditions; I determined that we would slow to 190 degrees and configure for flaps 12 degrees for conditions. We were then pulled out of the hold and vectored for the approach. Approach told us to maintain 170 KTS. I inquired if we could hold 190 KTS; due to the moderate icing. I figured with the conditions; 190 KTS would be better until we had to configure for the final approach. I inquired if we could hold 190 degrees to omoge; and she said only if we would like to go to bae and hold; very tersely. I asked her if we could extend out the downwind slightly; thinking that a little extra room between us and the guy in front of us would allow us to hold 190 KTS. She told us not an exact quote; 'sir; we have a lot of planes to get into mke; so if you would like to go to bae and hold; you can hold whatever speed you like.' she was very short; and unaccommodating. As I did not want to spend any more time in the icing (as we had already been holding in the icing for some time); going to bae would not be appropriate. I determined that the icing was not such that we couldn't slow to 170 KTS; and we slowed and configured to flaps 20 degrees. I was there. We configured the aircraft appropriately for the conditions. ATC could be more accommodating and less confrontational when crews operating in continued icing conditions make requests. I could have also been more forceful in my request; and told her due to operations necessity I needed to hold 190 KTS. I feared; however; that this would have meant a trip to bae to hold; which was something I didn't want to do.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: ACR PLT EXPRESSED FRUSTRATION AT ATC'S FAILURE TO ACCOMMODATE REQUESTED AIRSPEED WHEN EXITING HOLDING FOR LNDG AT MKE.
Narrative: BECAUSE MKE APCH DIDN'T WANT TO ACCOMMODATE A SLIGHTLY FASTER SPD FROM US; ON OUR ARR IN MKE WE WERE TOLD THAT THE ACFT WERE HOLDING DUE TO RWY PLOWING; AND EXPECT TO HOLD. WE WERE ASSIGNED A HOLD AT OMOGE RWY 19R OUTER MARKER. AFTER INITIALLY MAINTAINING 210 KTS; DUE TO MODERATE ICING CONDITIONS; I DETERMINED THAT WE WOULD SLOW TO 190 DEGS AND CONFIGURE FOR FLAPS 12 DEGS FOR CONDITIONS. WE WERE THEN PULLED OUT OF THE HOLD AND VECTORED FOR THE APCH. APCH TOLD US TO MAINTAIN 170 KTS. I INQUIRED IF WE COULD HOLD 190 KTS; DUE TO THE MODERATE ICING. I FIGURED WITH THE CONDITIONS; 190 KTS WOULD BE BETTER UNTIL WE HAD TO CONFIGURE FOR THE FINAL APCH. I INQUIRED IF WE COULD HOLD 190 DEGS TO OMOGE; AND SHE SAID ONLY IF WE WOULD LIKE TO GO TO BAE AND HOLD; VERY TERSELY. I ASKED HER IF WE COULD EXTEND OUT THE DOWNWIND SLIGHTLY; THINKING THAT A LITTLE EXTRA ROOM BTWN US AND THE GUY IN FRONT OF US WOULD ALLOW US TO HOLD 190 KTS. SHE TOLD US NOT AN EXACT QUOTE; 'SIR; WE HAVE A LOT OF PLANES TO GET INTO MKE; SO IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO GO TO BAE AND HOLD; YOU CAN HOLD WHATEVER SPD YOU LIKE.' SHE WAS VERY SHORT; AND UNACCOMMODATING. AS I DID NOT WANT TO SPEND ANY MORE TIME IN THE ICING (AS WE HAD ALREADY BEEN HOLDING IN THE ICING FOR SOME TIME); GOING TO BAE WOULD NOT BE APPROPRIATE. I DETERMINED THAT THE ICING WAS NOT SUCH THAT WE COULDN'T SLOW TO 170 KTS; AND WE SLOWED AND CONFIGURED TO FLAPS 20 DEGS. I WAS THERE. WE CONFIGURED THE ACFT APPROPRIATELY FOR THE CONDITIONS. ATC COULD BE MORE ACCOMMODATING AND LESS CONFRONTATIONAL WHEN CREWS OPERATING IN CONTINUED ICING CONDITIONS MAKE REQUESTS. I COULD HAVE ALSO BEEN MORE FORCEFUL IN MY REQUEST; AND TOLD HER DUE TO OPS NECESSITY I NEEDED TO HOLD 190 KTS. I FEARED; HOWEVER; THAT THIS WOULD HAVE MEANT A TRIP TO BAE TO HOLD; WHICH WAS SOMETHING I DIDN'T WANT TO DO.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of January 2009 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.