CRJ200 crew turns inside cri on the kennedy 1 departure out of jfk.

Attributes
ACN	734323
Time
Date	200704
Local Time Of Day	1801 To 2400
Place
Locale Reference	navaid : cri.vor
State Reference	NY
Altitude	msl single value : 5000
Environment
Flight Conditions	VMC
Light	Dusk
Aircraft 1
Controlling Facilities	tracon : n90.tracon tower : zzzz.tower
Operator	common carrier : air carrier
Make Model Name	Regional Jet 200 ER&LR
Operating Under FAR Part	Part 121
Navigation In Use	other vortac
Flight Phase	climbout : initial
Route In Use	departure sid : kennedy
Flight Plan	IFR
Person 1
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : captain oversight : pic
Experience	flight time last 90 days : 290 flight time total : 8000 flight time type : 5400
ASRS Report	734323
Person 2
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : first officer
Experience	flight time last 90 days : 200 flight time total : 9000 flight time type : 4000
Events
Anomaly	non adherence : published procedure other spatial deviation
Independent Detector	other controllera
Resolutory Action	controller : issued advisory none taken : anomaly accepted
Supplementary
Problem Areas	Company Flight Crew Human Performance ATC Human Performance Chart Or Publication
Primary Problem	Ambiguous

Narrative:

During the climb and sse of cri; departure asked if we were flying the 'fly over your house departure?' we'd departed runway 31L and out of 400 ft AGL began the turn direct to cri. I was in green data with the cri VOR 176 degree radial dialed in. I was using the bearing pointer #1 to track direct to cri. We retracted the flaps and gear on schedule. Inside 3.0 DME cri; I began a turn outbound to join the cri 176 degree radial. At about 4000 ft MSL the controller posed his question to us and another company flight. Both of us were told cri is considered a flyover point on the kennedy 1. Nothing on the kennedy 1 specifies cri as a flyover point. Current company guidance emphasizes if a turn is initiated when the 'to/from' pointer changes to the 'from;' cri has been overshot. I've used the technique specified above (and in air carrier X's guidance) multiple times and never been questioned. This incident was the first time cri was described as a flyover fix. If cri is a flyover fix (similar to an RNAV flyover waypoint); will this requirement be addressed in future revisions of the departure procedure?

Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: CRJ200 CREW TURNS INSIDE CRI ON THE KENNEDY 1 DEPARTURE OUT OF JFK.

Narrative: DURING THE CLB AND SSE OF CRI; DEP ASKED IF WE WERE FLYING THE 'FLY OVER YOUR HOUSE DEP?' WE'D DEPARTED RWY 31L AND OUT OF 400 FT AGL BEGAN THE TURN DIRECT TO CRI. I WAS IN GREEN DATA WITH THE CRI VOR 176 DEG RADIAL DIALED IN. I WAS USING THE BEARING POINTER #1 TO TRACK DIRECT TO CRI. WE RETRACTED THE FLAPS AND GEAR ON SCHEDULE. INSIDE 3.0 DME CRI; I BEGAN A TURN OUTBOUND TO JOIN THE CRI 176 DEG RADIAL. AT ABOUT 4000 FT MSL THE CTLR POSED HIS QUESTION TO US AND ANOTHER COMPANY FLT. BOTH OF US WERE TOLD CRI IS CONSIDERED A FLYOVER POINT ON THE KENNEDY 1. NOTHING ON THE KENNEDY 1 SPECIFIES CRI AS A FLYOVER POINT. CURRENT COMPANY GUIDANCE EMPHASIZES IF A TURN IS INITIATED WHEN THE 'TO/FROM' POINTER CHANGES TO THE 'FROM;' CRI HAS BEEN OVERSHOT. I'VE USED THE TECHNIQUE SPECIFIED ABOVE (AND IN ACR X'S GUIDANCE) MULTIPLE TIMES AND NEVER BEEN QUESTIONED. THIS INCIDENT WAS THE FIRST TIME CRI WAS DESCRIBED AS A FLYOVER FIX. IF CRI IS A FLYOVER FIX (SIMILAR TO AN RNAV FLYOVER WAYPOINT); WILL THIS REQUIREMENT BE ADDRESSED IN FUTURE REVISIONS OF THE DEP PROC?

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of January 2009 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.